6 ms·
Pen+touch+type seems like a great idea. It is something no other manufacturer has tried to do. I think the devil will be in the details, but this sure is inter
by kulkarnic 14y ago
Pen+touch+type seems like a great idea. It is something no other manufacturer has tried to do. I think the devil will be in the details, but this sure is interesting, because Apple's strategy is "people should buy multiple devices-- iPad, Macbook Air, Mac Pro...". MSFT wants one device that is a lot more versatile.
- Samuel_Michon 14y agoPen+touch+type seems like a great idea. It is something no other manufacturer has tried to do. Apple Newton MessagePad, 1993. It had a stylus, handwriting recognition, you could use it with just your fingertips, and you could connect an external keyboard. http://www.flickr.com/photos/atow/4314242537/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/atow/4314242537/ That was almost twenty years a go. Newton was a very expensive experiment for Apple, and they have learned the hard way that styluses are not the way to go.
- jrockway 14y agoOn the other hand, nearly ever doctor or professional I've seen using a tablet was using a Thinkpad with a pen rather than an iPad with their finger. Screwing around with iTunes and doing work are two completely separate use cases, and it seems that Microsoft is more interested in "the Enterprise" than Apple is. So with that in mind, they're trying to accommodate all use cases. (I did have one doctor that insisted on using an iPad. It took him forever to type notes to the point of it being extremely irritating. Transcribe your notes later!)
- greedo 14y agoMy anectdata trumps yours. I took my daughter to the pediatrician yesterday, and the entire practice was equipped with iPads.
- tejaswiy 14y agoMy comment is a question for greedo, couldn't reply to him directly: Just curious, was this the Miami Children's Hospital? I actually built their whole check-in on the iPad experience in their hospital :)
- chadyj 14y agoFor a great look at iPad use by doctors read this Wired article. "Canada’s Ottawa Hospital uses close to 3,000 iPads, and they’re popping up everywhere — in the lab coats of attending physicians, residents, and pharmacists. " http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2011/12/apple-ipad-doctors/all/ http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2011/12/apple-ipad-doct...
- jrockway 14y agohttp://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
- Bud 14y ago"Screwing around with iTunes"? You've either both not worked in any large companies lately AND never really used an iPad, or you are just blinded by platform bias. The fact is that iPads are being massively adopted in Fortune 500 companies. And I can assure you that those users are not "screwing around with iTunes". In fact, iTunes doesn't even exist on the iPad, so you don't really know what you are talking about, at all. (edit: Two instant downvotes on this, but I notice nobody is refuting my facts.)
- barista 14y agoI think his point was that typing on iPad sucks. Feel free to disagree because sucks is a subjective measure. I think that the integrated keyboard in both covers lets you make the choice which is what the point of the product seems to be.
- mixmastamyk 14y agoThere are iTunes and App store apps on my iOS devices which can't be removed.
- bitrot 14y agoWhat does the presence of iTunes have to do with the ridiculous suggestion that you can only "screw around with iTunes" on an iPad? The logic of your and greedo's replies boggles.
- greedo 14y ago"In fact, iTunes doesn't even exist on the iPad, so you don't really know what you are talking about, at all. (edit: Two instant downvotes on this, but I notice nobody is refuting my facts.)" Considering that Bud was spouting out of a bodily orifice, the rest of his argument is suspect as well. This, despite the fallacy of jrockway's argument deserves to be corrected.
- bitrot 14y agoAh, my apologies. Somehow I managed to miss that part despite reading that comment and the replies several times over. At any rate, jrockway is a known troll. Should've known better than to enter this fight.
- JumpCrisscross 14y agoThe lesson they may have learned was 1993 was not the right time to launch a tablet. The iPad wasn't the first swipe at a tablet, either.
- aik 14y agoAnd it failed. I think the point is that it's nothing that anyone has tried recently, as the technology just hasn't been good enough. We're in a completely different world than the one in 1993. The question now is whether the technology today is good enough to be usable. No one else has tried it recently, meaning common understanding is that even today it's too complicated/not good enough. Until now.
- Samuel_Michon 14y agoMicrosoft has been trying to sell stylus based tablets for years, and they never stopped: Windows for pen based computers, Windows XP Tablet PC Edition, UMPC, Courier, Slate PC, etc etc. I'm all for experimenting by releasing products in the wild, hoping that the next iteration will finally find its market. But seriously, it's getting a little ridiculous. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC#History
- snowwrestler 14y agoComputerized handwriting recognition will never be good enough because even people have trouble recognizing handwriting--even their own. And once the recognition fails, you're left with computer text that needs to be corrected. How? With a keyboard. So most people just gravitate toward using the keyboard in the first place. A stylus is better for drawing (see: Wacom) but most people don't draw.
- stcredzero 14y agoComputerized handwriting recognition will never be good enough Yes, but making eInk good enough is just a matter of getting latency down low enough.
- hcurtiss 14y agoOnenote is a really great compromise. The handwriting remains, and it converts to text in the background. It's not perfect, but it doesn't have to be. As a TabletPC user and a lawyer, I've been waiting for this form factor for years. IMHO, the only reason the TabletPC didn't thrive is (i) short battery life, and (ii) weight/size. This machine is, to me, the great promise.
- jsherry 14y agoNot everyone agrees. This one is rated pretty highly and apparently selling quite well: http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Touchscreen-Including-Motorola-BlackBerry/dp/B004GCJEZU http://www.amazon.com/AmazonBasics-Touchscreen-Including-Mot...
- InclinedPlane 14y agoThat was an era of different technology. Stylus alone (resistive touch) is not a good general purpose input system but works really well for inputting hand writing or drawing. Capacitive touch lacks fine resolution so it's not good for drawing but it's fantastic for UI because it supports multi-touch. Today we don't have to be shackled by the technological limits that held the Newton back. The Surface has both types of touch sensors so it can match the appropriate sensor to the appropriate use (drawing/writing or touch-based UI). Also, modern mobile computers have vastly more processing power and storage capabilities so, ironically, handwriting recognition is not necessary. The raw input can simply be stored away (as a vector graphic, perhaps, or even just as raw pixels). Also, the general pattern of "someone tried that once, and they failed, so nobody should ever do that" is a really terrible way to go about engineering. Wile E. Coyote should not be a roll model. Just because someone failed at something similar. Just because YOU failed at something similar, doesn't mean you should give up on the whole idea.
- stcredzero 14y agoWile E. Coyote makes for an interesting roll model, considering that he's not round at all, but his body does seem to be able to adapt to a rolling mode when enough force is applied. Also, he is a SU-per Geeen-ius! I agree, that a good stylus would be a good addition to a tablet. A crappy stylus is worthless, though. It has to be a good one.
- ConstantineXVI 14y agoBeing pedantic; the stylus used here (and in the Galaxy Note, etc) isn't working off a resistive screen, but an active digitizer (likely N-Trig or Wacom).
- forgottenpaswrd 14y agoThe time delay in Galaxy Note is unacceptable for Apple(and for me, I used it a lot and I hated it). You could do a responsible program on a Nintendo DS with 40MHz. Lazy people.
- esolyt 14y agoStylus is optional on Microsoft's tablet though. You can use the tablet perfectly without a stylus. You may choose to provide some inputs by using a stylus.
- simplexion 14y agoYes, Stylus is optional on my Galaxy Note. I thought I wouldn't use it, turns out I am constantly pulling it out. I think having the option to use a stylus is a fantastic idea.
- timtadh 14y agoLet us not forget the Apple Newton Emate 300: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMate_300 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMate_300 Probably the best computer ever designed for children. I used one myself in school from 4th grade through 8th grade when I upgraded to a "real" laptop. The main reason for the upgrade: I couldn't program on the emate. Other than that it was in every way superior: Instant on, touch, nice keyboard, no distraction interface, usable in all lighting conditions, ect... Now of course people would sneer at it since it didn't have any form of internet. However, at the time my teachers were more comfortable with it in the classroom due to those limitations.
- parkan 14y agoActually, you could program for the eMate (NewtonScript, which is surprisingly powerful -- you do need a mac to build the app but you could write code on the device itself, there were apps for this), and you could connect to the internet, too -- I had a PCMCIA ethernet card with a pop-out jack in mine. I fondly remember printing to a HP laser printer via the IR port in the library, bypassing normal printing limits.
- Produce 14y agoFor crying out loud. Ofcourse styluses are the way to go if you want any degree of accuracy. The difference between yesterday and today is the difference between resistive and capacitive touch screens. In other words, the new type is far more sensitive and doesn't require having to tap a spot ten times to get it to register. Fingers are still good if you're doing things where accuracy is not important - e.g. tapping the screen to pause/play a video.
- regularfry 14y agoGood resistive screens are as responsive as capacitive, and they don't need a conductive stylus so you can easily flip between accurate and inaccurate modes. Seriously, if you get a chance to play with a Nokia N900, you'll see what I mean.
- podperson 14y agoI'm as big a fan of the Newton as anyone (I still have a Newton MP2000 in my nightstand -- I think it even has good batteries in it -- but there's a qualitative difference between something like this and the Newton (and arguing you could use the Newton with just your fingers is a stretch -- it required strong nails and considerable pressure). I'm also a big fan of the iPad, but this definitely looks like something _worth criticizing_ (to paraphrase Alan Kay). I think a big problem with this device as conceived is that most of the time I do not use my tablet neatly on a table, so the keyboard/cover is a cute gimmick, but only really of interest in limited cases (in much the same way as all the different keyboard options for the iPad, some quite clever, have proven a waste of time for me).
- kulkarnic 14y agoYeah, so what? If you read HCI papers from the 90s (it's what I do for a job-- I'm a PhD student in HCI), you'll see that a lot of very respected researchers claimed that speech technology is not useful (their claim is well-founded: it is slow, environmental noise is unavoidable, what to say is often not obvious, and there's the Midas problem). But, here we are, with people praising Siri. It's how technology works-- every input modality is useful for some tasks, and at some level of maturity. Dismissing technological potential based purely on past technology is short-sighted. [For examples of how Pen+touch is a good idea see http://billbuxton.com/Pen+TouchUIST.pdf http://billbuxton.com/Pen+TouchUIST.pdf. Add type, and it could be powerful indeed]
- Samuel_Michon 14y agoFor what it's worth: I'm not entirely convinced that Siri will ever work as advertised. I think the new car smell is gone and lately I've read nothing but complaints. Apple really needs to step it up. I expected more of the iOS 6 announcement, like a Siri API for third party apps and better communication between apps. That is what's needed to even come close to the 80s Knowledge Navigator idea. I mean, the dictation part is nice, but otherwise, I haven't found much use for Siri.
- jawngee 14y agoI use Siri constantly: - change playlists when when I'm working out or biking - set the alarm when I go to bed - reminders (a lot) - the weather - looking up something on wikipedia and imdb - and sending short sms messages I'd say my use has grown over the last few weeks as I'm biking a lot more. There was an initial trust issue, and I still sometimes have this weird feeling of being on the spot when I'm dictating to Siri, but otherwise best "app" on the phone for me.
- Mythbusters 14y agosample size of 1.
- 14y ago
- kailashbadu 14y agoAll that experiment proved is early 90s was not a right time for technology like Newton. Nothing more.
- mkr-hn 14y agoI'm sure someone very early in human civilization thought fire was unviable because you could only get it from lightning. Who's going to go out in a thunderstorm to secure a fire before the rain puts it out? It'll never catch on.
- forgottenpaswrd 14y ago"they have learned the hard way that styluses are not the way to go." No, what they learned is that requiring an active matrix behind the screen consuming battery and weighting more(and adding $1000 per device in terms of licenses), is not the way to go. But I'm pretty sure that Apple is considering it with other technologies(like the same touch tech they use today with hi res for stylus). Not as the main input, of course, but for drawing like you can do on paper. This is the single most important thing I need on a tablet as an engineer-designer, drawing sketches on a tablet so I don't need paper.
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- srkiranraj 14y agoI dont see any reference to pen input in surface. Is it true that Surface has pen input too ?
- iNate2000 14y agoThe "Pro" version - with the Ivy Bridge processor - will have a pen...
- seclorum 14y agoI'm reminded of my old collection of Dauphin DTR-1's: https://www.google.at/search?q=dauphin+dtr-1&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbm=isch https://www.google.at/search?q=dauphin+dtr-1&um=1&hl... We've come a long way since those days .. but then again, maybe its the same, just .. shinier.