3 ms·

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I wonder if these trends in staying home are also true in more walkable areas. Of course the ability to go out is a factor, but su

I mentioned it elsewhere, but I wonder if these trends in staying home are also true in more walkable areas. Of course the ability to go out is a factor, but suburban sprawl is not a new trend in the US either.

anon291 2y ago
I think there's a been a substantial change in the kinds of suburban developments. I grew up in suburbia but it was still significantly more walkable than the sorts of developments I see today, especially in areas where housing is cheap and they're building a lot. My suburb growing up was grid based and you could bike to the grocery store. The part of Portland I live in is technically a suburb (started out that way, but eventually merged into the core). However, based off of historical records, the basic pattern of businesses has remained the same, so even when it was fully suburban, you could always walk to the park , coffee shop, bakery (some have even been here the full 100 years or so the neighborhood's been around). Whereas, due to zoning and HOAs, I just can't see where those would possibly develop in the example I gave above. It's illegal. I'm not an expert by any means, but I feel the pattern changed sometime in the 90s and aughts.
- alamortsubite 2y ago
  Yes, the automobile enabled this change, though I think it happened earlier than you imagine (more like the 50s and 60s). Those older style suburbs are known as "streetcar suburbs" [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb
TuringNYC 2y ago
>> I mentioned it elsewhere, but I wonder if these trends in staying home are also true in more walkable areas. I think it depends on zoning and mandates. I used to live in Brooklyn on 4th Ave and it is super-walkable. However, numerous 12story buildings featured a parking garage as their ground-level facade, rather than cafes, offices, etc. This leads to an empty industrial feeling that makes people run away from such spaces. Here is are 3 examples: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6718516,-73.9875659,3a,75y,295.93h,83.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVDRp27kfZ7KbWUc_-2Hi0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6718516,-73.9875659,3a,75y,2... https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6731304,-73.9863663,3a,75y,96.24h,96.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq2gvTZpmYy8-tTh2d0miGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6731304,-73.9863663,3a,75y,9... https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6726699,-73.9865002,3a,75y,196.39h,83.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss0Sk18RWdF46pDEkAwyMSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6726699,-73.9865002,3a,75y,1... To be fair, many did have clinics or dentist offices also, but -- it would be nice to have places where people want to go -- gyms, cafes, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. In "The Death and Life of Great American Cities", Jacobs pushes for a variety -- and I can now truly appreciate that having lived in the above areas. The above areas may be walkable but dont attract people to walk there. They also become ghostly at night and people feel unsafe walking there. I could imagine the entire atmosphere changing with restaurants and cafes.

anon291 2y ago

I think there's a been a substantial change in the kinds of suburban developments. I grew up in suburbia but it was still significantly more walkable than the sorts of developments I see today, especially in areas where housing is cheap and they're building a lot. My suburb growing up was grid based and you could bike to the grocery store. The part of Portland I live in is technically a suburb (started out that way, but eventually merged into the core). However, based off of historical records, the basic pattern of businesses has remained the same, so even when it was fully suburban, you could always walk to the park , coffee shop, bakery (some have even been here the full 100 years or so the neighborhood's been around). Whereas, due to zoning and HOAs, I just can't see where those would possibly develop in the example I gave above. It's illegal. I'm not an expert by any means, but I feel the pattern changed sometime in the 90s and aughts.

alamortsubite 2y ago
Yes, the automobile enabled this change, though I think it happened earlier than you imagine (more like the 50s and 60s). Those older style suburbs are known as "streetcar suburbs" [1]. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb

TuringNYC 2y ago

>> I mentioned it elsewhere, but I wonder if these trends in staying home are also true in more walkable areas. I think it depends on zoning and mandates. I used to live in Brooklyn on 4th Ave and it is super-walkable. However, numerous 12story buildings featured a parking garage as their ground-level facade, rather than cafes, offices, etc. This leads to an empty industrial feeling that makes people run away from such spaces. Here is are 3 examples: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6718516,-73.9875659,3a,75y,295.93h,83.04t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVDRp27kfZ7KbWUc_-2Hi0w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6718516,-73.9875659,3a,75y,2... https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6731304,-73.9863663,3a,75y,96.24h,96.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq2gvTZpmYy8-tTh2d0miGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6731304,-73.9863663,3a,75y,9... https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6726699,-73.9865002,3a,75y,196.39h,83.86t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1ss0Sk18RWdF46pDEkAwyMSw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6726699,-73.9865002,3a,75y,1... To be fair, many did have clinics or dentist offices also, but -- it would be nice to have places where people want to go -- gyms, cafes, grocery stores, restaurants, etc. In "The Death and Life of Great American Cities", Jacobs pushes for a variety -- and I can now truly appreciate that having lived in the above areas. The above areas may be walkable but dont attract people to walk there. They also become ghostly at night and people feel unsafe walking there. I could imagine the entire atmosphere changing with restaurants and cafes.