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you are splitting hairs about the wrong issue. When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. T

you are splitting hairs about the wrong issue. When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. This is the situation where having so much solar power capacity (kW) is dangerous. The risk scales with energy output but it would not term nameplate capacity a "completely useless metric".

hinkley 2y ago
I dunno. I lived next to a small inland sea most of my adult life. The number of times someone on the other side of town asserted it was raining when in fact it was not was quite high. Every adult in Seattle eventually has to learn that if you have an activity planned on the other side of town, if you cancel it because it’s raining at your house you’re not going to get anything done. You have to phone a friend or just show up and then decide if you’re going to cancel due to weather. Now to be fair, in the case of Seattle, there’s a mountain that multiplies this effect north versus south. NL doesn’t have that, but if you look at the weather satellite at the time of my writing, there are long narrow strips of precip over England that are taller but much narrower than NL.
- eldaisfish 2y ago
  clouds and rain do not behave the same as the sun. What point are you trying to make here?
  - hinkley 2y ago
    If you’re not talking about day and night, summer winter cycles, then the sun’s behavior is the inverse of the union of clouds and pollution. Do you know why microinverters exist? They exist because panels next to each other can see different light, and without the micro inverter the entire chain produces no power at all if one of the panels in series is generating no power. So we use microinverters to rescue power stranded by trees, debris, or partial cloud cover.
- Aachen 2y ago
  "Sometimes it rained in a part of town only" does not disprove the person saying "it can be sunny virtually everywhere at the same time in a small country" For a simple demonstration, https://www.buienradar.nl/nederland/zon-en-wolken/wolkenradar/24uurs https://www.buienradar.nl/nederland/zon-en-wolken/wolkenrada... has been showing cloudless hours pretty regularly in the last month. Someone meaning malice can certainly keep an eye on that for a few days to find a good moment
  - hinkley 2y ago
    Being sunny everywhere at the same time is not the problem with solar panels, and I think this was already covered up thread so this feels like going in circles. The problem is what percentage are generally in full sun, and how low that percentage goes. My comment was about assuming that all of the panels are not in sun at the same time. Not whether sunny days exist.
  - lucianbr 2y ago
    > "it can be sunny virtually everywhere at the same time in a small country" > When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. These statements are not the same. They're quite different, actually. One talks about most sunny days, one talks about one sunny day.
lucianbr 2y ago
> When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. Often friends of mine who live in my city report rain when I see none, or no rain when it's raining outside my window. That's to say nothing of a location 30km away, where basically anything can happen. Do we live on the same planet?
- Aachen 2y ago
  On which planet does the regular occurrence of one phenomenon disprove the regular occurrence of another? It can both be true that weather is locally different on most days but coincides to be universally cloudless on a fair number of hours every late-summer month (easily within a reasonable waiting time for an attacker)
  - lucianbr 2y ago
    The Netherlands covers 41,850 km2. I don't agree this size is small enough to cause the weather to be likely the same everywhere. Whatever qualifier and quantifier juggling you're trying to do is beside the point. > When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. Nowhere there is the qualifier "a fair number of hours every late summer month". If you add arbitrary conditions of course you can get a different meaning.
    - Aachen 2y ago
      Fair enough, in my head I guess that was a given because that's the sort of attack being talked about but that could have been specified better indeed

hinkley 2y ago

I dunno. I lived next to a small inland sea most of my adult life. The number of times someone on the other side of town asserted it was raining when in fact it was not was quite high. Every adult in Seattle eventually has to learn that if you have an activity planned on the other side of town, if you cancel it because it’s raining at your house you’re not going to get anything done. You have to phone a friend or just show up and then decide if you’re going to cancel due to weather. Now to be fair, in the case of Seattle, there’s a mountain that multiplies this effect north versus south. NL doesn’t have that, but if you look at the weather satellite at the time of my writing, there are long narrow strips of precip over England that are taller but much narrower than NL.

eldaisfish 2y ago
clouds and rain do not behave the same as the sun. What point are you trying to make here?
- hinkley 2y ago
  If you’re not talking about day and night, summer winter cycles, then the sun’s behavior is the inverse of the union of clouds and pollution. Do you know why microinverters exist? They exist because panels next to each other can see different light, and without the micro inverter the entire chain produces no power at all if one of the panels in series is generating no power. So we use microinverters to rescue power stranded by trees, debris, or partial cloud cover.
Aachen 2y ago
"Sometimes it rained in a part of town only" does not disprove the person saying "it can be sunny virtually everywhere at the same time in a small country" For a simple demonstration, https://www.buienradar.nl/nederland/zon-en-wolken/wolkenradar/24uurs https://www.buienradar.nl/nederland/zon-en-wolken/wolkenrada... has been showing cloudless hours pretty regularly in the last month. Someone meaning malice can certainly keep an eye on that for a few days to find a good moment
- hinkley 2y ago
  Being sunny everywhere at the same time is not the problem with solar panels, and I think this was already covered up thread so this feels like going in circles. The problem is what percentage are generally in full sun, and how low that percentage goes. My comment was about assuming that all of the panels are not in sun at the same time. Not whether sunny days exist.
- lucianbr 2y ago
  > "it can be sunny virtually everywhere at the same time in a small country" > When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. These statements are not the same. They're quite different, actually. One talks about most sunny days, one talks about one sunny day.

lucianbr 2y ago

> When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. Often friends of mine who live in my city report rain when I see none, or no rain when it's raining outside my window. That's to say nothing of a location 30km away, where basically anything can happen. Do we live on the same planet?

Aachen 2y ago
On which planet does the regular occurrence of one phenomenon disprove the regular occurrence of another? It can both be true that weather is locally different on most days but coincides to be universally cloudless on a fair number of hours every late-summer month (easily within a reasonable waiting time for an attacker)
- lucianbr 2y ago
  The Netherlands covers 41,850 km2. I don't agree this size is small enough to cause the weather to be likely the same everywhere. Whatever qualifier and quantifier juggling you're trying to do is beside the point. > When it is sunny in the netherlands, it is likely sunny everywhere in NL because of how small the country is. Nowhere there is the qualifier "a fair number of hours every late summer month". If you add arbitrary conditions of course you can get a different meaning.
  - Aachen 2y ago
    Fair enough, in my head I guess that was a given because that's the sort of attack being talked about but that could have been specified better indeed