3 ms·

Demand for seed-oil-free foods is growing

21 points by bilsbie 2y ago

FigurativeVoid 2y ago
I see all sorts of influencers espousing the evils of seed oils, but they are usually the same ones that endorse an all meat diet. Is there any strong evidence that see oils are distinctly worse than other fats and oils? Or is it just snake oil?
- doctoboggan 2y ago
  No there is no strong evidence as was very briefly mentioned in the article: > "The strength of the evidence is hotly disputed however, and not all health experts agree that seed oils are a cause for concern." I suspect this is a "submarine" article for the Seed Oil Free Alliance that is mentioned throughout.
- bcn 2y ago
  The claim that oils rich in linoleic acid (e.g. seed oils) increase inflammation was looked at in, "a systematic review of randomized controlled trials that permitted the assessment of dietary LA (linoleic acid) on biologic markers of chronic inflammation among healthy noninfant populations was conducted to examine this concern."... "We conclude that virtually no evidence is available from randomized, controlled intervention studies among healthy, noninfant human beings to show that addition of LA to the diet increases the concentration of inflammatory markers" see: Effect of dietary linoleic acid on markers of inflammation in healthy persons: a systematic review of randomized controlled trials - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22889633/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22889633/
- marcuskane2 2y ago
  I studied this extensively during my phd. There is real evidence that the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fats in the diet has measurable impacts to health outcomes. Unsaturated fats (those which contain carbon <-> carbon double bonds, rather than each carbon being "saturated" with 3 hydrogen atoms and a single carbon <-> carbon bond) are classified by where that double bond takes place. The alpha carbon atom is at the carboxylic acid end and the omega carbon is at the end of the "tail". Omega-9, Omega-6, Omega-3 are telling you where the double-bond exists, relative to the end of the tail. These molecules can have slightly different behaviors inside the body, despite being highly similar. The reason that fish oil supplements sometimes show positive health outcomes is because they are high in omega-3s and help bring balance to the overall diet of people who eat an omega-6 heavy diet. People whose diets aren't overbalanced towards omega-6 don't see any positive impact from fish oil supplements. All that said, the impact is quite small. Avoiding seed oils often has the practical impact of avoiding ultraprocessed snack foods or shifting people's eating away from packaged foods towards fresh, whole foods, which have numerous positive impacts (less sugar, less microbiome-disrupting preservatives, less artificial colors, more fiber, more vitamins, etc) and so at population-level it can work as a reasonable proxy for "healthy" versus "unhealthy" food choices. TL;DR - seed oils have a sub-optimal ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids. People should try to eat an overall diet which gives them a higher omega-3 to omega-6 ratio than seed oils will provide. Seed oils can be an acceptable part of a diet as long as this ratio is balanced by other meals. Overall, the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio is a relatively minor part of health, and a focus on sugar, total calories, sugar, fiber, sugar, protein, sugar, vitamins, sugar and minerals is the more important thing.
Mistletoe 2y ago
I was interested in if seed oil hysteria has any basis in reality in humans and found this excellent fact-based website. https://www.the-nutrivore.com/post/a-comprehensive-rebuttal-to-seed-oil-sophistry https://www.the-nutrivore.com/post/a-comprehensive-rebuttal-... If you don’t want to read the whole thing skip to the discussion. >It may be true that vegetable oils are food items that represent a stark divergence from traditional dietary norms. However, it does not appear as though these oils are uniquely causal of the chronic diseases we face in the modern, industrialized world. In fact, vegetable oils likely have a beneficial role to play in the prevention of many diseases— particularly heart disease, type 2 diabetes mellitus, and potentially skin cancer. Vegetable oils could plausibly have a beneficial role to play in preventing degeneration of the macula, fatty liver disease, and perhaps some auto-immune diseases. >This in-depth analysis could find no persuasive evidence of harm with vegetable oils for any of the investigated endpoints. Vegetable oils seemed to have no consistent effect on the risk of breast cancer, colorectal cancer, obesity, or cognitive decline. Though there are many proposed mechanisms by which vegetable oils have been suggested to be harmful to humans, the actual human outcome data does not seem to support the importance of these mechanisms for these endpoints. If the outcomes consistently contradict our mechanistic speculations, the mechanisms are probably not interacting with those outcomes in the way we suspect.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mkl95 2y ago
In my country there are many urban legends about seed oils. They are supposed to be awful for your health, etc., and according to my parents it's pretty much poison. These beliefs lead some people to cook exclusively with olive oil. And so most of their food tastes like olive oil, because it's not neutral. Now, A bottle of good sunflower oil is somewhere between 1 and 1.5 euro at the local market. While a bottle of good olive oil is between 10 and 15 euro. I enjoy my sunflower oil for most things that I cook, and I use olive oil for the stuff that demands it. If you cannot provide any serious evidence, it's just a marketing piece for non seed oils, whose manufacturers are not doing well due to the current economy and how expensive they can be.
- TheChaplain 2y ago
  I guess that is because sunflowers have short harvest cycle? But iirc sunflower demands greater land areal vs olives for same yield, and the shorter cycle process ought also then cause more CO2. So I suspect although olive oil is more expensive, but environmentally a better choice.
  - mkl95 2y ago
    AFAIK olive oil became pricier due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and some bad harvests (dry seasons)
xyst 2y ago
I just hope this doesn’t cause a massive swing towards other oils such as olive oil. It’s already expensive. Then add in the hype towards alternative oils and it’s going to skyrocket.
rajnathani 2y ago
This post shouldn't have been flagged.

21 points by bilsbie 2y ago

I see all sorts of influencers espousing the evils of seed oils, but they are usually the same ones that endorse an all meat diet. Is there any strong evidence that see oils are distinctly worse than other fats and oils? Or is it just snake oil?

doctoboggan 2y ago
No there is no strong evidence as was very briefly mentioned in the article: > "The strength of the evidence is hotly disputed however, and not all health experts agree that seed oils are a cause for concern." I suspect this is a "submarine" article for the Seed Oil Free Alliance that is mentioned throughout.
bcn 2y ago
The claim that oils rich in linoleic acid (e.g. seed oils) increase inflammation was looked at in, "a systematic review of randomized controlled trials that permitted the assessment of dietary LA (linoleic acid) on biologic markers of chronic inflammation among healthy noninfant populations was conducted to examine this concern."... "We conclude that virtually no evidence is available from randomized, controlled intervention studies among healthy, noninfant human beings to show that addition of LA to the diet increases the concentration of inflammatory markers" see: Effect of dietary linoleic acid on markers of inflammation in healthy persons: a systematic review of randomized controlled trials - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22889633/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22889633/
marcuskane2 2y ago
I studied this extensively during my phd. There is real evidence that the ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fats in the diet has measurable impacts to health outcomes. Unsaturated fats (those which contain carbon <-> carbon double bonds, rather than each carbon being "saturated" with 3 hydrogen atoms and a single carbon <-> carbon bond) are classified by where that double bond takes place. The alpha carbon atom is at the carboxylic acid end and the omega carbon is at the end of the "tail". Omega-9, Omega-6, Omega-3 are telling you where the double-bond exists, relative to the end of the tail. These molecules can have slightly different behaviors inside the body, despite being highly similar. The reason that fish oil supplements sometimes show positive health outcomes is because they are high in omega-3s and help bring balance to the overall diet of people who eat an omega-6 heavy diet. People whose diets aren't overbalanced towards omega-6 don't see any positive impact from fish oil supplements. All that said, the impact is quite small. Avoiding seed oils often has the practical impact of avoiding ultraprocessed snack foods or shifting people's eating away from packaged foods towards fresh, whole foods, which have numerous positive impacts (less sugar, less microbiome-disrupting preservatives, less artificial colors, more fiber, more vitamins, etc) and so at population-level it can work as a reasonable proxy for "healthy" versus "unhealthy" food choices. TL;DR - seed oils have a sub-optimal ratio of omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids. People should try to eat an overall diet which gives them a higher omega-3 to omega-6 ratio than seed oils will provide. Seed oils can be an acceptable part of a diet as long as this ratio is balanced by other meals. Overall, the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio is a relatively minor part of health, and a focus on sugar, total calories, sugar, fiber, sugar, protein, sugar, vitamins, sugar and minerals is the more important thing.

Mistletoe 2y ago

I was interested in if seed oil hysteria has any basis in reality in humans and found this excellent fact-based website. https://www.the-nutrivore.com/post/a-comprehensive-rebuttal-to-seed-oil-sophistry https://www.the-nutrivore.com/post/a-comprehensive-rebuttal-... If you don’t want to read the whole thing skip to the discussion. >It may be true that vegetable oils are food items that represent a stark divergence from traditional dietary norms. However, it does not appear as though these oils are uniquely causal of the chronic diseases we face in the modern, industrialized world. In fact, vegetable oils likely have a beneficial role to play in the prevention of many diseases— particularly heart disease, type 2 diabetes mellitus, and potentially skin cancer. Vegetable oils could plausibly have a beneficial role to play in preventing degeneration of the macula, fatty liver disease, and perhaps some auto-immune diseases. >This in-depth analysis could find no persuasive evidence of harm with vegetable oils for any of the investigated endpoints. Vegetable oils seemed to have no consistent effect on the risk of breast cancer, colorectal cancer, obesity, or cognitive decline. Though there are many proposed mechanisms by which vegetable oils have been suggested to be harmful to humans, the actual human outcome data does not seem to support the importance of these mechanisms for these endpoints. If the outcomes consistently contradict our mechanistic speculations, the mechanisms are probably not interacting with those outcomes in the way we suspect.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

mkl95 2y ago

In my country there are many urban legends about seed oils. They are supposed to be awful for your health, etc., and according to my parents it's pretty much poison. These beliefs lead some people to cook exclusively with olive oil. And so most of their food tastes like olive oil, because it's not neutral. Now, A bottle of good sunflower oil is somewhere between 1 and 1.5 euro at the local market. While a bottle of good olive oil is between 10 and 15 euro. I enjoy my sunflower oil for most things that I cook, and I use olive oil for the stuff that demands it. If you cannot provide any serious evidence, it's just a marketing piece for non seed oils, whose manufacturers are not doing well due to the current economy and how expensive they can be.

TheChaplain 2y ago
I guess that is because sunflowers have short harvest cycle? But iirc sunflower demands greater land areal vs olives for same yield, and the shorter cycle process ought also then cause more CO2. So I suspect although olive oil is more expensive, but environmentally a better choice.
- mkl95 2y ago
  AFAIK olive oil became pricier due to the Russian invasion of Ukraine and some bad harvests (dry seasons)

xyst 2y ago

I just hope this doesn’t cause a massive swing towards other oils such as olive oil. It’s already expensive. Then add in the hype towards alternative oils and it’s going to skyrocket.

rajnathani 2y ago

This post shouldn't have been flagged.