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Today everything is noncommittal trial and error it seems… oh sorry, I think I’ve spelled “agile” wrong…

by steve1977 2y ago

loudmax 2y ago
A surplus of agility is the last of Boeing's problems.
- steve1977 2y ago
  In my experience, agile methodologies do not have a a strong correlation to agility.
  - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
    Boeing (especially Boeing ITDA) did indeed have a run-in with Agile SAFE. It went predictably.
    - HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
      Boeing's bean counter management seem more concerned about cost saving than quality. https://www.industryweek.com/supply-chain/article/22027840/boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers https://www.industryweek.com/supply-chain/article/22027840/b...
      - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        Oh yes. I worked at Boeing until recently.
    - steve1977 2y ago
      “a waterfall pig with agile lipstick”
      - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
        Was not an optimistic introduction to the industry... But there were still some good people, and good teams. But yea there were times where the importance of agile methodology in being preached by an executive agile coach before an emergency task force meeting while planes are falling out the sky.
lucianbr 2y ago
What does this have to do with anything? Are NASA or Boeing using Agile for any project related to this mission?
- cabbageicefruit 2y ago
  No. Not at all. SpaceX is much closer to “agile” than Boeing or NASA, and I don’t think their success is a strike against agile. GP just seems to have beef with agile and seems to be trying to loop any random failure, whether or not agile was involved, into the discussion. Here is a past HN thread discussing exactly this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23856590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23856590
  - steve1977 2y ago
    My beef is with selling incompetence to plan as agile… not with agile done properly (which is rare).
rbanffy 2y ago
Quite the opposite. Agile is about testing ALL THE TIME and building incrementally. They have flown humans right after a single successful cargo mission. Did they have no further anomalies in the second mission? I seriously doubt it. Now they have a bunch of issues on the RCS and reentry rockets that can't possibly be entirely new (unless someone changed something and people have flown an untested critical component). Worse for Boeing, those components are procured from a third party which now they must be questioning how much QA went into them.

Today everything is noncommittal trial and error it seems… oh sorry, I think I’ve spelled “agile” wrong…

loudmax 2y ago

A surplus of agility is the last of Boeing's problems.

steve1977 2y ago
In my experience, agile methodologies do not have a a strong correlation to agility.
- DiggyJohnson 2y ago
  Boeing (especially Boeing ITDA) did indeed have a run-in with Agile SAFE. It went predictably.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 2y ago
    Boeing's bean counter management seem more concerned about cost saving than quality. https://www.industryweek.com/supply-chain/article/22027840/boeings-737-max-software-outsourced-to-9-an-hour-engineers https://www.industryweek.com/supply-chain/article/22027840/b...
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      Oh yes. I worked at Boeing until recently.
  - steve1977 2y ago
    “a waterfall pig with agile lipstick”
    - DiggyJohnson 2y ago
      Was not an optimistic introduction to the industry... But there were still some good people, and good teams. But yea there were times where the importance of agile methodology in being preached by an executive agile coach before an emergency task force meeting while planes are falling out the sky.

lucianbr 2y ago

What does this have to do with anything? Are NASA or Boeing using Agile for any project related to this mission?

cabbageicefruit 2y ago
No. Not at all. SpaceX is much closer to “agile” than Boeing or NASA, and I don’t think their success is a strike against agile. GP just seems to have beef with agile and seems to be trying to loop any random failure, whether or not agile was involved, into the discussion. Here is a past HN thread discussing exactly this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23856590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23856590
- steve1977 2y ago
  My beef is with selling incompetence to plan as agile… not with agile done properly (which is rare).

rbanffy 2y ago

Quite the opposite. Agile is about testing ALL THE TIME and building incrementally. They have flown humans right after a single successful cargo mission. Did they have no further anomalies in the second mission? I seriously doubt it. Now they have a bunch of issues on the RCS and reentry rockets that can't possibly be entirely new (unless someone changed something and people have flown an untested critical component). Worse for Boeing, those components are procured from a third party which now they must be questioning how much QA went into them.