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> Dr. de la Torre made more money as a heart surgeon than in his first years as a corporate CEO Something is going wrong if you're making as a heart surgeon mo

by siva7 2y ago

> Dr. de la Torre made more money as a heart surgeon than in his first years as a corporate CEO Something is going wrong if you're making as a heart surgeon more than a corporate CEO because who pays for this? Is this making healthcare inaccessible to those who need it so someone can buy a yacht or two?

christophilus 2y ago
I’m willing to bet you can find a capable CEO more easily than you can find a capable heart surgeon. There is no rigorous CEO school. MBAs aren’t a prerequisite. There is a fairly rigorous medical degree requirement if you want to be a highly specialized surgeon...
- eesmith 2y ago
  Which leads back to the supply of doctors, which depends on the limited number of med schools available and residency slots, and scope-of-care restrictions. (Eg, see https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/4561/does-the-ama-limit-the-number-of-doctors-to-increase-current-doctors-salaries https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/4561/does-the-a... and https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/03/15/ama-scope-of-practice-lobbying/ https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/03/15/ama-scope... )
borbulon 2y ago
Something is wrong with the whole system of how people are compensated for their work; a Starbucks employee shouldn’t have to rely upon the good graces of their customers (tips) to earn a living wage, either. That being said, a heart surgeon has a very specific and wide-ranging set of knowledge and skills which not many people could have, not to mention the incredible amount of stress they’re under.
legacynl 2y ago
Honestly in a 'Just' system I think the heart surgeon is supposed to make more than a CEO
- Ekaros 2y ago
  I don't really know. Both should be doing reasonable well, but what is the impact of single surgeon? How many people can they heal a day? Where as well managed hospital run by CEO could impact lot more people effectively each and every day. Not that that pay should be insane either...
  - legacynl 2y ago
    Yes, but a manager could leave for an extended period of time without any real impact. If a doctor leaves the surgeries and treatments actually stop. There are worker-coops that function perfectly well without a management layer leeching of actual productive people. I mean practically I agree that some management is a good idea long term, and it's most efficient to have specific people for that, but to say that they are as important as the actual workers is ridiculous.
- tivert 2y ago
  > Honestly in a 'Just' system I think the heart surgeon is supposed to make more than a CEO Yes, but in a just system they'd both also make less than they do now. Maybe ~$200k/year total compensation, say? IIRC, surgeons had the prestige and power when the fundamentals of the modern American medical billing system were established, so "procedures" pay better than office visits, and surgeons get compensated waaay more than other doctors because they do lots of procedures.

by siva7 2y ago

christophilus 2y ago

I’m willing to bet you can find a capable CEO more easily than you can find a capable heart surgeon. There is no rigorous CEO school. MBAs aren’t a prerequisite. There is a fairly rigorous medical degree requirement if you want to be a highly specialized surgeon...

eesmith 2y ago
Which leads back to the supply of doctors, which depends on the limited number of med schools available and residency slots, and scope-of-care restrictions. (Eg, see https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/4561/does-the-ama-limit-the-number-of-doctors-to-increase-current-doctors-salaries https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/4561/does-the-a... and https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/03/15/ama-scope-of-practice-lobbying/ https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2022/03/15/ama-scope... )

borbulon 2y ago

Something is wrong with the whole system of how people are compensated for their work; a Starbucks employee shouldn’t have to rely upon the good graces of their customers (tips) to earn a living wage, either. That being said, a heart surgeon has a very specific and wide-ranging set of knowledge and skills which not many people could have, not to mention the incredible amount of stress they’re under.

legacynl 2y ago

Honestly in a 'Just' system I think the heart surgeon is supposed to make more than a CEO

Ekaros 2y ago
I don't really know. Both should be doing reasonable well, but what is the impact of single surgeon? How many people can they heal a day? Where as well managed hospital run by CEO could impact lot more people effectively each and every day. Not that that pay should be insane either...
- legacynl 2y ago
  Yes, but a manager could leave for an extended period of time without any real impact. If a doctor leaves the surgeries and treatments actually stop. There are worker-coops that function perfectly well without a management layer leeching of actual productive people. I mean practically I agree that some management is a good idea long term, and it's most efficient to have specific people for that, but to say that they are as important as the actual workers is ridiculous.
tivert 2y ago
> Honestly in a 'Just' system I think the heart surgeon is supposed to make more than a CEO Yes, but in a just system they'd both also make less than they do now. Maybe ~$200k/year total compensation, say? IIRC, surgeons had the prestige and power when the fundamentals of the modern American medical billing system were established, so "procedures" pay better than office visits, and surgeons get compensated waaay more than other doctors because they do lots of procedures.