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I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially wort

I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially worthless. It can be pretty and enjoyable, but it's, at least for now, immaterial, and too dirt cheap to produce to bear any sensible intrinsic value. Industry jobs might be somewhat at risks, as businesses tend to optimize for profits, but even there, I'd wait and see what happens in the long run. > I wonder how people will view the effects on art and sciences in 200 years. Hopefully we would have had a Renaissance 2.0 since then! Were Islam to keep on growing (I do personally think it's more on the decline), I think we could expect interesting outcomes, artistically speaking, as Muslims visual arts, because they tend to shy away from figuration, are somewhat orthogonal to Western's forms. > Today, many people view both AI's effect on art and the rise of Islam in Europe very negatively. Islam has always been culturally foreign to Europe, and the current economical & social situation have a bunch of weird, highly chaotic side-effects. Most of the Muslims I've met were generous, heartwarming and thoughtful, perhaps more than the average person. I know it's not systematically true either, but I still have little reason to not have an essentially positive view of them. I've also met people who told me (literally) that 99% Muslims were bloody awful, by sole virtue of being Muslims: the same reasoning we had a few decades ago, when Jews were targeted for sole virtue of being Jews, not because of their individual acts.

dotancohen 2y ago
> I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially worthless. It can be pretty and enjoyable, but it's, at least for now, immaterial, and too dirt cheap to produce to bear any sensible intrinsic value. AI is already replacing a very long tail of small business needs for near-worthless art. This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc. But like any calculus, the very long tail of small transactions added up to a non-negligible portion of the industry. > Were Islam to keep on growing (I do personally think it's more on the decline), I think we could expect interesting outcomes, artistically speaking, as Muslims visual arts, because they tend to shy away from figuration, are somewhat orthogonal to Western's forms. Islam in Europe is growing - mostly by refugees' birth rates. As I'm not Christian, and my own culture also prefers art without human or divine figuration, I absolutely love Muslim art. I've been to many mosques (and some Christian churches, too) in my country. > Most of the Muslims I've met were generous, heartwarming and thoughtful, perhaps more than the average person. I know it's not systematically true either, but I still have little reason to not have an essentially positive view of them. I agree with you 100%. But we're not talking about people - we're talking about culture. I can think of more than a single culture that I'd rather not live among, even if as individuals I value my friendship with individuals of that culture. > I've also met people who told me (literally) that 99% Muslims were bloody awful, by sole virtue of being Muslims: the same reasoning we had a few decades ago, when Jews were targeted for sole virtue of being Jews, not because of their individual acts. Yes, exactly, it's not hard to find somebody who hates other people. Don't let them ruin your perception of people - you'll find 99% of people to be fine no matter what culture they are from. But groups of people who maintain a culture among them - I have to say that some of these can be problematic. Paradox of tolerance and all that.
- mbivert 2y ago
  > This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc Let's add to this the use of digital art, which drastically reduced production costs (can't resist: [0]). I wonder however, if, in the long run, AI won't end up boosting traditional arts, and encourage higher creativity and skills from human artists. > Islam in Europe is growing In numbers definitely, but I was thinking in terms of "spiritual intensity". Consider e.g. how Muslims feast during Ramadan at night: I doubt this is remotely aligned with the original intents. Same thing goes for other groups: hateful Christian despite Jesus's "Love Thy Neighbor", Jews celebrating murder despite Hashem's command, etc. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k
  - dotancohen 2y ago
    Feasting at night is certainly aligned with the original intentions of Ramadan. Muhammad broke his fast with a date, then feasted.
    - mbivert 2y ago
      Perhaps "feasting" wasn't the right word: I would bet Ramadan was originally a time of rest, calm and reflection, and not about eating excessively all nights for a month. Prophets usually encourage good measure, balance, not that kind of excessive behavior.
      - dotancohen 2y ago
        I live in the Middle East, here I wouldn't call the nightly meals excessive. I've never seen the morning meal. So it might be a local issue.
        mbivert 2y ago
        Interesting, I'm in Europe; Maghrebis I know tend to look down upon our local Muslims, so it might explain a few things. I might also be biased.

dotancohen 2y ago

> I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially worthless. It can be pretty and enjoyable, but it's, at least for now, immaterial, and too dirt cheap to produce to bear any sensible intrinsic value. AI is already replacing a very long tail of small business needs for near-worthless art. This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc. But like any calculus, the very long tail of small transactions added up to a non-negligible portion of the industry. > Were Islam to keep on growing (I do personally think it's more on the decline), I think we could expect interesting outcomes, artistically speaking, as Muslims visual arts, because they tend to shy away from figuration, are somewhat orthogonal to Western's forms. Islam in Europe is growing - mostly by refugees' birth rates. As I'm not Christian, and my own culture also prefers art without human or divine figuration, I absolutely love Muslim art. I've been to many mosques (and some Christian churches, too) in my country. > Most of the Muslims I've met were generous, heartwarming and thoughtful, perhaps more than the average person. I know it's not systematically true either, but I still have little reason to not have an essentially positive view of them. I agree with you 100%. But we're not talking about people - we're talking about culture. I can think of more than a single culture that I'd rather not live among, even if as individuals I value my friendship with individuals of that culture. > I've also met people who told me (literally) that 99% Muslims were bloody awful, by sole virtue of being Muslims: the same reasoning we had a few decades ago, when Jews were targeted for sole virtue of being Jews, not because of their individual acts. Yes, exactly, it's not hard to find somebody who hates other people. Don't let them ruin your perception of people - you'll find 99% of people to be fine no matter what culture they are from. But groups of people who maintain a culture among them - I have to say that some of these can be problematic. Paradox of tolerance and all that.

mbivert 2y ago
> This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc Let's add to this the use of digital art, which drastically reduced production costs (can't resist: [0]). I wonder however, if, in the long run, AI won't end up boosting traditional arts, and encourage higher creativity and skills from human artists. > Islam in Europe is growing In numbers definitely, but I was thinking in terms of "spiritual intensity". Consider e.g. how Muslims feast during Ramadan at night: I doubt this is remotely aligned with the original intents. Same thing goes for other groups: hateful Christian despite Jesus's "Love Thy Neighbor", Jews celebrating murder despite Hashem's command, etc. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k
- dotancohen 2y ago
  Feasting at night is certainly aligned with the original intentions of Ramadan. Muhammad broke his fast with a date, then feasted.
  - mbivert 2y ago
    Perhaps "feasting" wasn't the right word: I would bet Ramadan was originally a time of rest, calm and reflection, and not about eating excessively all nights for a month. Prophets usually encourage good measure, balance, not that kind of excessive behavior.
    - dotancohen 2y ago
      I live in the Middle East, here I wouldn't call the nightly meals excessive. I've never seen the morning meal. So it might be a local issue.
      - mbivert 2y ago
        Interesting, I'm in Europe; Maghrebis I know tend to look down upon our local Muslims, so it might explain a few things. I might also be biased.