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> Art changed drastically during the 19th century, and photography played a role for sure, but IMO the decline of religion is probably a greater contributor. A

> Art changed drastically during the 19th century, and photography played a role for sure, but IMO the decline of religion is probably a greater contributor. And we have new tools affecting art today, artificial intelligence chief among them. Interestingly, that coincides with a rise in religion in many Western nations fueled by the influx of Islam to Europe. I wonder how people will view the effects on art and sciences in 200 years. Today, many people view both AI's effect on art and the rise of Islam in Europe very negatively.

14 2y ago
What are you on about? Dude check yourself.
hk__2 2y ago
In my experience AI has a very negligible impact on contemporary art for now. Sure, it feels everywhere if your art consumption is limited to browsing the Web, but if you go out in museums and galleries it’s not that visible.
mbivert 2y ago
I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially worthless. It can be pretty and enjoyable, but it's, at least for now, immaterial, and too dirt cheap to produce to bear any sensible intrinsic value. Industry jobs might be somewhat at risks, as businesses tend to optimize for profits, but even there, I'd wait and see what happens in the long run. > I wonder how people will view the effects on art and sciences in 200 years. Hopefully we would have had a Renaissance 2.0 since then! Were Islam to keep on growing (I do personally think it's more on the decline), I think we could expect interesting outcomes, artistically speaking, as Muslims visual arts, because they tend to shy away from figuration, are somewhat orthogonal to Western's forms. > Today, many people view both AI's effect on art and the rise of Islam in Europe very negatively. Islam has always been culturally foreign to Europe, and the current economical & social situation have a bunch of weird, highly chaotic side-effects. Most of the Muslims I've met were generous, heartwarming and thoughtful, perhaps more than the average person. I know it's not systematically true either, but I still have little reason to not have an essentially positive view of them. I've also met people who told me (literally) that 99% Muslims were bloody awful, by sole virtue of being Muslims: the same reasoning we had a few decades ago, when Jews were targeted for sole virtue of being Jews, not because of their individual acts.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  > I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially worthless. It can be pretty and enjoyable, but it's, at least for now, immaterial, and too dirt cheap to produce to bear any sensible intrinsic value. AI is already replacing a very long tail of small business needs for near-worthless art. This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc. But like any calculus, the very long tail of small transactions added up to a non-negligible portion of the industry. > Were Islam to keep on growing (I do personally think it's more on the decline), I think we could expect interesting outcomes, artistically speaking, as Muslims visual arts, because they tend to shy away from figuration, are somewhat orthogonal to Western's forms. Islam in Europe is growing - mostly by refugees' birth rates. As I'm not Christian, and my own culture also prefers art without human or divine figuration, I absolutely love Muslim art. I've been to many mosques (and some Christian churches, too) in my country. > Most of the Muslims I've met were generous, heartwarming and thoughtful, perhaps more than the average person. I know it's not systematically true either, but I still have little reason to not have an essentially positive view of them. I agree with you 100%. But we're not talking about people - we're talking about culture. I can think of more than a single culture that I'd rather not live among, even if as individuals I value my friendship with individuals of that culture. > I've also met people who told me (literally) that 99% Muslims were bloody awful, by sole virtue of being Muslims: the same reasoning we had a few decades ago, when Jews were targeted for sole virtue of being Jews, not because of their individual acts. Yes, exactly, it's not hard to find somebody who hates other people. Don't let them ruin your perception of people - you'll find 99% of people to be fine no matter what culture they are from. But groups of people who maintain a culture among them - I have to say that some of these can be problematic. Paradox of tolerance and all that.
  - mbivert 2y ago
    > This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc Let's add to this the use of digital art, which drastically reduced production costs (can't resist: [0]). I wonder however, if, in the long run, AI won't end up boosting traditional arts, and encourage higher creativity and skills from human artists. > Islam in Europe is growing In numbers definitely, but I was thinking in terms of "spiritual intensity". Consider e.g. how Muslims feast during Ramadan at night: I doubt this is remotely aligned with the original intents. Same thing goes for other groups: hateful Christian despite Jesus's "Love Thy Neighbor", Jews celebrating murder despite Hashem's command, etc. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k

14 2y ago

What are you on about? Dude check yourself.

hk__2 2y ago

In my experience AI has a very negligible impact on contemporary art for now. Sure, it feels everywhere if your art consumption is limited to browsing the Web, but if you go out in museums and galleries it’s not that visible.

mbivert 2y ago

I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially worthless. It can be pretty and enjoyable, but it's, at least for now, immaterial, and too dirt cheap to produce to bear any sensible intrinsic value. Industry jobs might be somewhat at risks, as businesses tend to optimize for profits, but even there, I'd wait and see what happens in the long run. > I wonder how people will view the effects on art and sciences in 200 years. Hopefully we would have had a Renaissance 2.0 since then! Were Islam to keep on growing (I do personally think it's more on the decline), I think we could expect interesting outcomes, artistically speaking, as Muslims visual arts, because they tend to shy away from figuration, are somewhat orthogonal to Western's forms. > Today, many people view both AI's effect on art and the rise of Islam in Europe very negatively. Islam has always been culturally foreign to Europe, and the current economical & social situation have a bunch of weird, highly chaotic side-effects. Most of the Muslims I've met were generous, heartwarming and thoughtful, perhaps more than the average person. I know it's not systematically true either, but I still have little reason to not have an essentially positive view of them. I've also met people who told me (literally) that 99% Muslims were bloody awful, by sole virtue of being Muslims: the same reasoning we had a few decades ago, when Jews were targeted for sole virtue of being Jews, not because of their individual acts.

dotancohen 2y ago
> I believe AI to merely affects art but superficially: by that I mean that it lower the cost of creation so drastically, that what it creates is essentially worthless. It can be pretty and enjoyable, but it's, at least for now, immaterial, and too dirt cheap to produce to bear any sensible intrinsic value. AI is already replacing a very long tail of small business needs for near-worthless art. This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc. But like any calculus, the very long tail of small transactions added up to a non-negligible portion of the industry. > Were Islam to keep on growing (I do personally think it's more on the decline), I think we could expect interesting outcomes, artistically speaking, as Muslims visual arts, because they tend to shy away from figuration, are somewhat orthogonal to Western's forms. Islam in Europe is growing - mostly by refugees' birth rates. As I'm not Christian, and my own culture also prefers art without human or divine figuration, I absolutely love Muslim art. I've been to many mosques (and some Christian churches, too) in my country. > Most of the Muslims I've met were generous, heartwarming and thoughtful, perhaps more than the average person. I know it's not systematically true either, but I still have little reason to not have an essentially positive view of them. I agree with you 100%. But we're not talking about people - we're talking about culture. I can think of more than a single culture that I'd rather not live among, even if as individuals I value my friendship with individuals of that culture. > I've also met people who told me (literally) that 99% Muslims were bloody awful, by sole virtue of being Muslims: the same reasoning we had a few decades ago, when Jews were targeted for sole virtue of being Jews, not because of their individual acts. Yes, exactly, it's not hard to find somebody who hates other people. Don't let them ruin your perception of people - you'll find 99% of people to be fine no matter what culture they are from. But groups of people who maintain a culture among them - I have to say that some of these can be problematic. Paradox of tolerance and all that.
- mbivert 2y ago
  > This market was already dominated by Fiver and free stock photos / icon packs / etc Let's add to this the use of digital art, which drastically reduced production costs (can't resist: [0]). I wonder however, if, in the long run, AI won't end up boosting traditional arts, and encourage higher creativity and skills from human artists. > Islam in Europe is growing In numbers definitely, but I was thinking in terms of "spiritual intensity". Consider e.g. how Muslims feast during Ramadan at night: I doubt this is remotely aligned with the original intents. Same thing goes for other groups: hateful Christian despite Jesus's "Love Thy Neighbor", Jews celebrating murder despite Hashem's command, etc. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTL2FtcQO1k