5 ms·

'Virtually intact' wreck believed to be Royal Navy warship torpedoed in WWI

52 points by SonOfKyuss 2y ago

Flatcircle 2y ago
Would love to see more photos of the wreck
- mrsilencedogood 2y ago
  Same. When we say "virtually intact", I'm guessing that means, aside from the torpedo that went through the hull? "It caught fire, exploded and then disappeared beneath the murky waters of the North Sea off north-east Scotland in less than eight minutes." So I wonder how much there is "“All the brass work on the wreck, like the portholes and the breaches for the deck guns, are all still shiny … it’s probably due to the fact that she was just built so well.”" Seems to be enough left that resembles the ship that it still captivated the finders, instead of just being "we figured out where it went down."
- manarth 2y ago
  There's some underwater footage on the Sky News website: https://news.sky.com/story/hms-hawke-discovered-wreck-believed-to-be-first-world-war-ship-sunk-by-german-torpedo-13197753 https://news.sky.com/story/hms-hawke-discovered-wreck-believ...
madaxe_again 2y ago
My great great grandfather was one of those who went down on the Hawke. The news was censored, and despite rumours of what had happened, official confirmation didn’t come until after the war. His widow was told that he had deserted and she wouldn’t be receiving a pension. Fast forward to 1942, my great grandfather is on HMS Curacoa on a foggy night, escorting the Queen Mary, which then rams the Curacoa, sinking it with almost all hands. You’ll never guess what the admiralty did next.
- CobrastanJorji 2y ago
  I've never heard the story of the Curacoa, but the summary on Wikipedia is bonkers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Curacoa_(D41)#Collision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Curacoa_(D41)#Collision Queen Mary is zigzagging around because maybe it'll confuse U-boats if there are any. Curacoa is trying to just go in a predictable straight line to maximize ability to defend against enemy aircraft if there are any. Queen Mary turns and slices straight through the Curacoa, doesn't stop to help because maybe there might be U-boats, and then everybody spends years in litigation after the war about whose fault it was.
  - moffkalast 2y ago
    > And sure enough, the Queen Mary sliced the cruiser in two like a piece of butter, straight through the six-inch [sic] armoured plating. Amazing imagery. They sure built those liners properly. Reminds me of RMS Olympic and U-103: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic#Sinking_of_U-103 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic#Sinking_of_U-103
- vkou 2y ago
  The most surprising thing about WWI is that after the war ended, the respective armies didn't string up every single politician responsible for the conflict. A complete butchery of Europe's youth for nothing. Instead, somehow, all the blame fell on the generals (most of whom were doing the best they could given the political goals they were given), while the architects and propagandists of the war got off clean.
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    >> didn't string up every single politician responsible for the conflict. But more than a few dynasties ended as a result of the war. Certainly the Romanovs were not allowed to continue. And there were no more kaisers after the war either.
  - mncharity 2y ago
    > The Revolutions of 1917–1923 were a revolutionary wave that included political unrest and armed revolts around the world inspired by the success of the Russian Revolution and the disorder created by the aftermath of World War I.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%931923 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%9319...
CobrastanJorji 2y ago
> "All the brass work on the wreck, like the portholes and the breaches for the deck guns, are all still shiny..." I'm not a materials science person, but doesn't brass degrade fairly quickly in saltwater? Googling around, I'm discovering "Naval Brass," which is an alloy particularly resistant to dezincification in salt water, but it doesn't sound like it was in use in 1914. But I'm also reading about some brass artifacts from centuries ago that survived relatively well underwater. Wonder if somebody who knows about this stuff could clue me in to how these things do so well underwater for so long?
- nickff 2y ago
  Oxidation requires oxygen, in this case the wreck seems to have been at a depth with very small amounts of dissolved oxygen. It seems that the depth it was at is generally the least oxygenated, and it may be the case that the water wasn’t moving around much. https://rwu.pressbooks.pub/webboceanography/chapter/5-4-dissolved-gases-oxygen/ https://rwu.pressbooks.pub/webboceanography/chapter/5-4-diss...
  - sandworm101 2y ago
    Oxygen and heat. This is also very cold water.
    - nickff 2y ago
      Higher temperature does speed up oxidation, but the process doesn’t actually require heat, as it is exothermic.
      - sandworm101 2y ago
        With the metal immersed in water, i doubt the heat generated from the reaction would hang around long enough to meaningfully impact the rate, not on a smooth surface.
- willcipriano 2y ago
  The ghosts of the sailors would never allow the brass to be tarnished.
mihaaly 2y ago
So much low-background steel! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- qup 2y ago
  > Since the end of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels,[5] making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive uses, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used.[6] Guess we don't need it though
  - BurningFrog 2y ago
    Let's hope Putin keeps it that way!

52 points by SonOfKyuss 2y ago

Flatcircle 2y ago

Would love to see more photos of the wreck

mrsilencedogood 2y ago
Same. When we say "virtually intact", I'm guessing that means, aside from the torpedo that went through the hull? "It caught fire, exploded and then disappeared beneath the murky waters of the North Sea off north-east Scotland in less than eight minutes." So I wonder how much there is "“All the brass work on the wreck, like the portholes and the breaches for the deck guns, are all still shiny … it’s probably due to the fact that she was just built so well.”" Seems to be enough left that resembles the ship that it still captivated the finders, instead of just being "we figured out where it went down."
manarth 2y ago
There's some underwater footage on the Sky News website: https://news.sky.com/story/hms-hawke-discovered-wreck-believed-to-be-first-world-war-ship-sunk-by-german-torpedo-13197753 https://news.sky.com/story/hms-hawke-discovered-wreck-believ...

madaxe_again 2y ago

My great great grandfather was one of those who went down on the Hawke. The news was censored, and despite rumours of what had happened, official confirmation didn’t come until after the war. His widow was told that he had deserted and she wouldn’t be receiving a pension. Fast forward to 1942, my great grandfather is on HMS Curacoa on a foggy night, escorting the Queen Mary, which then rams the Curacoa, sinking it with almost all hands. You’ll never guess what the admiralty did next.

CobrastanJorji 2y ago
I've never heard the story of the Curacoa, but the summary on Wikipedia is bonkers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Curacoa_(D41)#Collision https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Curacoa_(D41)#Collision Queen Mary is zigzagging around because maybe it'll confuse U-boats if there are any. Curacoa is trying to just go in a predictable straight line to maximize ability to defend against enemy aircraft if there are any. Queen Mary turns and slices straight through the Curacoa, doesn't stop to help because maybe there might be U-boats, and then everybody spends years in litigation after the war about whose fault it was.
- moffkalast 2y ago
  > And sure enough, the Queen Mary sliced the cruiser in two like a piece of butter, straight through the six-inch [sic] armoured plating. Amazing imagery. They sure built those liners properly. Reminds me of RMS Olympic and U-103: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic#Sinking_of_U-103 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Olympic#Sinking_of_U-103
vkou 2y ago
The most surprising thing about WWI is that after the war ended, the respective armies didn't string up every single politician responsible for the conflict. A complete butchery of Europe's youth for nothing. Instead, somehow, all the blame fell on the generals (most of whom were doing the best they could given the political goals they were given), while the architects and propagandists of the war got off clean.
- sandworm101 2y ago
  >> didn't string up every single politician responsible for the conflict. But more than a few dynasties ended as a result of the war. Certainly the Romanovs were not allowed to continue. And there were no more kaisers after the war either.
- mncharity 2y ago
  > The Revolutions of 1917–1923 were a revolutionary wave that included political unrest and armed revolts around the world inspired by the success of the Russian Revolution and the disorder created by the aftermath of World War I.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%931923 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1917%E2%80%9319...

CobrastanJorji 2y ago

> "All the brass work on the wreck, like the portholes and the breaches for the deck guns, are all still shiny..." I'm not a materials science person, but doesn't brass degrade fairly quickly in saltwater? Googling around, I'm discovering "Naval Brass," which is an alloy particularly resistant to dezincification in salt water, but it doesn't sound like it was in use in 1914. But I'm also reading about some brass artifacts from centuries ago that survived relatively well underwater. Wonder if somebody who knows about this stuff could clue me in to how these things do so well underwater for so long?

nickff 2y ago
Oxidation requires oxygen, in this case the wreck seems to have been at a depth with very small amounts of dissolved oxygen. It seems that the depth it was at is generally the least oxygenated, and it may be the case that the water wasn’t moving around much. https://rwu.pressbooks.pub/webboceanography/chapter/5-4-dissolved-gases-oxygen/ https://rwu.pressbooks.pub/webboceanography/chapter/5-4-diss...
- sandworm101 2y ago
  Oxygen and heat. This is also very cold water.
  - nickff 2y ago
    Higher temperature does speed up oxidation, but the process doesn’t actually require heat, as it is exothermic.
    - sandworm101 2y ago
      With the metal immersed in water, i doubt the heat generated from the reaction would hang around long enough to meaningfully impact the rate, not on a smooth surface.
willcipriano 2y ago
The ghosts of the sailors would never allow the brass to be tarnished.

mihaaly 2y ago

So much low-background steel! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-background_steel

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
qup 2y ago
> Since the end of atmospheric nuclear testing, background radiation has decreased to very near natural levels,[5] making special low-background steel no longer necessary for most radiation-sensitive uses, as brand-new steel now has a low enough radioactive signature that it can generally be used.[6] Guess we don't need it though
- BurningFrog 2y ago
  Let's hope Putin keeps it that way!