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The idea to use moving walkways is completely fantastical and has no bearing on this discussion. An automated walkway is just a (poor, slow and very expensive t

The idea to use moving walkways is completely fantastical and has no bearing on this discussion. An automated walkway is just a (poor, slow and very expensive to build and maintain) transportation device, comparable to an electric bus. But electrics buses are not, by themselves, a solution to traffic because they must share the congested grid with all other above ground transport modes. Even if you would have the money required to build a mile of bidirectional walkways and the necessary enclosure (without which they would break down at the first rain), you still don't have the required right of way. And if you do get it, you would be completely harebrained to employ it for this project to double the walking speed of travelers, instead of, say, a BRT system, a bike or electric scooter lane etc. that are in every way superior solutions. Loop is comparable with subways because in each case we are talking about dedicated infrastructure that does not compete in the fixed sum struggle for street space. And it's primarily a tunnel network that has very high per tunnel theoretical throughput, see for example the London subways. The exact vehicle mix that's revenue maximizing for that infrastucture is still to be determined. It could remain a luxury taxi service or it could well evolve into a rubber wheeled metro. Probably they will do both at the same time. > Why are they using Teslas? Because it's the minimal viable product that allow them to meet city milestones and continue to evolve the system. Developing a completely new and custom vehicle for passenger transport is a massive risk, money and time sink that will be justified only later. Golf carts won't cut it for a variety of reasons.

eesmith 2y ago
It has bearing because it highlights how your analysis, based on "will move 2 people per second" is incomplete, as that same analysis would conclude that moving sidewalks are much better. You do realize I'm referring to an electric walkway in a dedicated tunnel, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_walkway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_walkway lists quite a few of those, including in the several-hundred meter range, for place where "a BRT system, a bike or electric scooter lane etc." are not superior solutions. > Developing a completely new and custom vehicle for passenger transport Very unlikely. As the article points out, the current system already supports golf cart systems, likely as an ADA requirement. Why do they need a new and custom vehicle? The expense of special-purpose designs is one of the reasons monorails aren't popular. What does a Tesla demonstrate - in terms of mass transit goals, not "cool, it's a Tesla" - over a golf cart system, or golf cart train, with higher capacity and better accessibility?
- cornholio 2y ago
  > an electric walkway in a dedicated tunnel It's highly unlikely they would work in tunnels, where real estate is even more constrained than at street level, and where the capital investment is substantial. Walkways are a compromise between ingress delay and wait time (at which they kick ass) vs total speed, they only make sense for relatively short runs; you just wouldn't spend tens of millions per mile to double or treble walking speed. But it any case, once you build the Loop network, there is nothing in principle stopping you to retrofit a moving walkway into the tunnels. Your initial retort was more of a reduction ad absurdum "if we don't do this with moving walkways... then surely using Tesla is worse idea". That line of argument simply doesn't work, a system using Tesla can hit two relevant metrics (pphpd and average speed) while the walkway system can hit only one (pphdd), and the good performance on that metric for that does not make up for the latter, especially considering the eye watering costs. The club cars are used for tunnel evacuation, they are not disabled friendly; disabled passengers are handled with a few specialty minivans. So club cars are an unsafe and low autonomy solution that can get the most people out of the tunnel in a few trips, without worrying about speed, crash rating, if the doors open etc. (they have no doors). They would certainly be unacceptable as daily drivers at 40Mph+

eesmith 2y ago

It has bearing because it highlights how your analysis, based on "will move 2 people per second" is incomplete, as that same analysis would conclude that moving sidewalks are much better. You do realize I'm referring to an electric walkway in a dedicated tunnel, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_walkway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_walkway lists quite a few of those, including in the several-hundred meter range, for place where "a BRT system, a bike or electric scooter lane etc." are not superior solutions. > Developing a completely new and custom vehicle for passenger transport Very unlikely. As the article points out, the current system already supports golf cart systems, likely as an ADA requirement. Why do they need a new and custom vehicle? The expense of special-purpose designs is one of the reasons monorails aren't popular. What does a Tesla demonstrate - in terms of mass transit goals, not "cool, it's a Tesla" - over a golf cart system, or golf cart train, with higher capacity and better accessibility?

cornholio 2y ago
> an electric walkway in a dedicated tunnel It's highly unlikely they would work in tunnels, where real estate is even more constrained than at street level, and where the capital investment is substantial. Walkways are a compromise between ingress delay and wait time (at which they kick ass) vs total speed, they only make sense for relatively short runs; you just wouldn't spend tens of millions per mile to double or treble walking speed. But it any case, once you build the Loop network, there is nothing in principle stopping you to retrofit a moving walkway into the tunnels. Your initial retort was more of a reduction ad absurdum "if we don't do this with moving walkways... then surely using Tesla is worse idea". That line of argument simply doesn't work, a system using Tesla can hit two relevant metrics (pphpd and average speed) while the walkway system can hit only one (pphdd), and the good performance on that metric for that does not make up for the latter, especially considering the eye watering costs. The club cars are used for tunnel evacuation, they are not disabled friendly; disabled passengers are handled with a few specialty minivans. So club cars are an unsafe and low autonomy solution that can get the most people out of the tunnel in a few trips, without worrying about speed, crash rating, if the doors open etc. (they have no doors). They would certainly be unacceptable as daily drivers at 40Mph+