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I was there and I think it's mostly fantasized that pixels were that different than the blocky pixels they were. I have a (still working) real vintage arcade ca

I was there and I think it's mostly fantasized that pixels were that different than the blocky pixels they were. I have a (still working) real vintage arcade cab from the mid-eighties, with an old, blurry CRT. It's amazing to play on that vintage cab (especially Robotron 2084 [1]) but it's not because of supposedly "blocky pixels not looking blocky". It's amazing because the joysticks are amazing. Standing is arguably cooler than sitting and then when things gets hectic, you'll physically "move" (or let say "shake") the cab by frantically going left/right/whatever. In the case of Robotron 2084 it's amazing because nothing today offers the same gameplay: you need two 8-directions joystick, on to move in one of 8 directions and the other joystick to fire in one of 8 directions. They don't make it like that today, unless you play a Robotron clone using actual arcade joystick. And even then: you better have a full-sized cab if you want the experience to be even more fun. Sure, we had scanlines and whatnots but it was still very close to blocky pixels shown today on a modern flat monitor without any shader (for example without artificially recreating the look of a CRT). Also the "blockiness" of them pixels back in the days was highly dependent on how old your CRT was. It's not as if there was "one correct bluriness" induced by CRT. Every CRT brand / age / model had different characteristics. To me the "supsension of disbelief" was there. For example I remember playing Sundog: The Frozen Legacy on the Atari ST. One of the best game ever made (by FTL, who then created Dungeon Master, which is basically the ancestor of all FPS games). When I was playing Sundog, I was a rogue space trader buying low/selling high, gun fighting in cities, etc. And I remember it as... Very blocky [2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotron:_2084 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robotron:_2084 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunDog:_Frozen_Legacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SunDog:_Frozen_Legacy

zamadatix 2y ago
Another thing that was/is very hard to replicate on common modern setups is that feeling of instant feedback you can get from quality (certainly not all) games at the time. The inputs were polled, there was no room for a 3 frame output buffer even if someone had wanted one, the displays didn't add a bunch of image processing time on top of it. You press fire and things fire, you dodge right and you move right. It wasn't truly instantaneous but it tended to be a lot better than a typical console+TV setup today (even in "game mode" on the TV). Worth noting Star Fox in particular was not one of these games... it was... struggling to do the output 3D at a fast or consistent rate even with the extra chip :). Again, not that all games were like this just it can be hard to replicate the feel of the ones that were with different technologies. Run-ahead is one way to bridge the last bit of that gap on many average systems these days. And you're 100% right there is no "correct blurriness" for CRT. When I say "don't take this one CRT to be gospel of what every CRT output from all of time looked like" I mean it - some CRTs, particularly for computer style displays instead of TV style displays, were relatively sharp. And a high end barely used CRT from the late 90s is probably a lot less blurry than a low end and heavily used one from the early 80s, everything else equivalent about them. That said, Star Fox had expectations of both being output on consumer TVs as well as through the SNES video output which wasn't particularly sharp itself anyways. Another classic example of this in home game consoles is the waterfalls in the Genesis era Sonic games. If you play them on a modern display it looks more like a sharp set of blue and white door bead curtains. If you play it on a typical CRT television it looks more like shimmering water falling (not perfectly but the bright single pixel whites are not so perfectly contrasted and there is some blur between the vertical lines with the background instead of a straight alternation).
Minor49er 2y ago
>In the case of Robotron 2084 it's amazing because nothing today offers the same gameplay: you need two 8-directions joystick, on to move in one of 8 directions and the other joystick to fire in one of 8 directions This kind of gameplay is known as a "twin-stick shooter" and is a popular genre even today. Most of the biggest consoles have had two sticks on their controllers for decades that have enabled this style of gameplay
nox101 2y ago
Maybe I have different visual perception than you but playing Super Metroid or Zelda: A Link to the Past, in a emulator with crisp square pixels looks nothing like it did on a CRT. There are tons of articles on the difference. Here's the first one I found, googling. It gives a good example of the difference https://wackoid.com/game/10-pictures-that-show-why-crt-tvs-are-better-for-gaming/ https://wackoid.com/game/10-pictures-that-show-why-crt-tvs-a... I went to a museum exhibit once where they were showing old consoles connected to LCD displays. It was infuriating to me how they where effectively disrespecting the art but not showing it the way it was at the time. It would be no different than if the Louvre replaced all their paintings with giant LCD displays of the same paintings.
CasperH2O 2y ago
> In the case of Robotron 2084 it's amazing because nothing today offers the same gameplay: you need two 8-directions joystick, on to move in one of 8 directions and the other joystick to fire in one of 8 directions. They don't make it like that today, unless you play a Robotron clone using actual arcade joystick. One could argue they do, these types of games are referred to as twin stick shooters. You can play them on modern PCs with modern gamepad that have two directional joysticks. Two of my favorites are Enter the Gungeon and Brigador.

zamadatix 2y ago

Another thing that was/is very hard to replicate on common modern setups is that feeling of instant feedback you can get from quality (certainly not all) games at the time. The inputs were polled, there was no room for a 3 frame output buffer even if someone had wanted one, the displays didn't add a bunch of image processing time on top of it. You press fire and things fire, you dodge right and you move right. It wasn't truly instantaneous but it tended to be a lot better than a typical console+TV setup today (even in "game mode" on the TV). Worth noting Star Fox in particular was not one of these games... it was... struggling to do the output 3D at a fast or consistent rate even with the extra chip :). Again, not that all games were like this just it can be hard to replicate the feel of the ones that were with different technologies. Run-ahead is one way to bridge the last bit of that gap on many average systems these days. And you're 100% right there is no "correct blurriness" for CRT. When I say "don't take this one CRT to be gospel of what every CRT output from all of time looked like" I mean it - some CRTs, particularly for computer style displays instead of TV style displays, were relatively sharp. And a high end barely used CRT from the late 90s is probably a lot less blurry than a low end and heavily used one from the early 80s, everything else equivalent about them. That said, Star Fox had expectations of both being output on consumer TVs as well as through the SNES video output which wasn't particularly sharp itself anyways. Another classic example of this in home game consoles is the waterfalls in the Genesis era Sonic games. If you play them on a modern display it looks more like a sharp set of blue and white door bead curtains. If you play it on a typical CRT television it looks more like shimmering water falling (not perfectly but the bright single pixel whites are not so perfectly contrasted and there is some blur between the vertical lines with the background instead of a straight alternation).

Minor49er 2y ago

>In the case of Robotron 2084 it's amazing because nothing today offers the same gameplay: you need two 8-directions joystick, on to move in one of 8 directions and the other joystick to fire in one of 8 directions This kind of gameplay is known as a "twin-stick shooter" and is a popular genre even today. Most of the biggest consoles have had two sticks on their controllers for decades that have enabled this style of gameplay

nox101 2y ago

Maybe I have different visual perception than you but playing Super Metroid or Zelda: A Link to the Past, in a emulator with crisp square pixels looks nothing like it did on a CRT. There are tons of articles on the difference. Here's the first one I found, googling. It gives a good example of the difference https://wackoid.com/game/10-pictures-that-show-why-crt-tvs-are-better-for-gaming/ https://wackoid.com/game/10-pictures-that-show-why-crt-tvs-a... I went to a museum exhibit once where they were showing old consoles connected to LCD displays. It was infuriating to me how they where effectively disrespecting the art but not showing it the way it was at the time. It would be no different than if the Louvre replaced all their paintings with giant LCD displays of the same paintings.

CasperH2O 2y ago

> In the case of Robotron 2084 it's amazing because nothing today offers the same gameplay: you need two 8-directions joystick, on to move in one of 8 directions and the other joystick to fire in one of 8 directions. They don't make it like that today, unless you play a Robotron clone using actual arcade joystick. One could argue they do, these types of games are referred to as twin stick shooters. You can play them on modern PCs with modern gamepad that have two directional joysticks. Two of my favorites are Enter the Gungeon and Brigador.