4 ms·

That's not "genius". Saying "give me money now for something later", making it vague and then not delivering isn't new or genius. It's something which is illeg

That's not "genius". Saying "give me money now for something later", making it vague and then not delivering isn't new or genius. It's something which is illegal, and this will be found to be illegal, once there's political will to investigate/prosecute.

hobs 2y ago
Yep, that's called Fraud. The only reason its continuing is because the political will to prosecute the rich, especially their big donor friend Elon who they've been giving billions of government subsidies to - investigating him after helping him makes them look bad too, and oh boy did MANY state and federal dollars flow his way.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  It's fraud if you never deliver. It's certainly not fraud if you are making progress towards delivering at some nebulous future date, and there was no contractual delivery date in the pre-sale. It's debatable whether it's fraud if the initial pre-sale expressedly included the possibility of non-delivery (i.e. Kickstarter).
  - dfhvneoieno 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - hobs 2y ago
    > It's certainly not fraud if you are making progress towards delivering at some nebulous future date, and there was no contractual delivery date in the pre-sale. Only legally, this is basically just fraud with legal disclaimers covering your ass, there's no integrity here and no intention of delivering anything more than the hyperloop.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      Legal terms are the codification of a contract between buyer and seller. Caveat emptor exists because ultimately it's the buyer's decision whether or not to take an offered deal. If some people were dumb enough to agree to a disadvantageous contract with Tesla... well, world's full of fools.
fakedang 2y ago
It's not illegal. It's product validation. It would have been a fraud had Musk taken the money and disappeared into the Caribbean sunset. Which he did not.

hobs 2y ago

Yep, that's called Fraud. The only reason its continuing is because the political will to prosecute the rich, especially their big donor friend Elon who they've been giving billions of government subsidies to - investigating him after helping him makes them look bad too, and oh boy did MANY state and federal dollars flow his way.

ethbr1 2y ago
It's fraud if you never deliver. It's certainly not fraud if you are making progress towards delivering at some nebulous future date, and there was no contractual delivery date in the pre-sale. It's debatable whether it's fraud if the initial pre-sale expressedly included the possibility of non-delivery (i.e. Kickstarter).
- dfhvneoieno 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    [flagged]
- hobs 2y ago
  > It's certainly not fraud if you are making progress towards delivering at some nebulous future date, and there was no contractual delivery date in the pre-sale. Only legally, this is basically just fraud with legal disclaimers covering your ass, there's no integrity here and no intention of delivering anything more than the hyperloop.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    Legal terms are the codification of a contract between buyer and seller. Caveat emptor exists because ultimately it's the buyer's decision whether or not to take an offered deal. If some people were dumb enough to agree to a disadvantageous contract with Tesla... well, world's full of fools.

fakedang 2y ago

It's not illegal. It's product validation. It would have been a fraud had Musk taken the money and disappeared into the Caribbean sunset. Which he did not.