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> I don’t get all the spring hate here. It's popular to hate on Java. It's become a sad trend. The funny thing is most people that hate it go on to re-invent

by re-thc 2y ago

> I don’t get all the spring hate here. It's popular to hate on Java. It's become a sad trend. The funny thing is most people that hate it go on to re-invent or use something vastly similar eventually (even if they don't see it that way). Spring does it for you right at the start. People hate to read the documentation or understand how things (including how Java) works and just blame it.

tdb7893 2y ago
It's a 29 year old language. It has done an amazing job adapting over time and is a technical marvel (and I still think it is a better than average language overall) but there are tons of valid criticisms of it and I don't begrudge someone not loving the language.
- wredue 2y ago
  Yeah. But people will be like “Java sucks. Ruby/Python/Haskell is the shit”
- okr 2y ago
  The language is old, the JVM is not. As a human i am happy that my language is well understood, independent of how old i am. I can express myself, and thats what counts. From time to time we get new words. But i do not have to ditch the old stuff. Is it not astounding how old many of the programming languages have become?
  - pylua 2y ago
    They do a great job of keeping the language fresh, on many levels. Java streams, encryption, syntax updates. It doesn’t feel old to me.
signal11 2y ago
It’s not about Java hate. Historical context: Spring was a lightweight alternative to J2EE. It started and became popular in financial services because no one wanted the boilerplate hell that was J2EE. By your logic we should all have stuck to J2EE as that was what the vendor (Sun) was pushing. Today Spring has become the new J2EE. It’s no longer lightweight. It has a gravitational field at this point. (Except less boilerplate than J2EE because the Spring devs cared about dev ex more than J2EE’s creators did.) Like J2EE back then, today, once you step out of the “framework == language” mentality, you’ll see there’s a bunch of ways to achieve what Spring does for you. Often with less code, less magic, and faster. This is not to say Spring is always bad. Use it if it makes sense — for some small teams it may make a lot of sense. But don’t sleepwalk into it because “Java means Spring.” It doesn’t.

by re-thc 2y ago

tdb7893 2y ago

It's a 29 year old language. It has done an amazing job adapting over time and is a technical marvel (and I still think it is a better than average language overall) but there are tons of valid criticisms of it and I don't begrudge someone not loving the language.

wredue 2y ago
Yeah. But people will be like “Java sucks. Ruby/Python/Haskell is the shit”
okr 2y ago
The language is old, the JVM is not. As a human i am happy that my language is well understood, independent of how old i am. I can express myself, and thats what counts. From time to time we get new words. But i do not have to ditch the old stuff. Is it not astounding how old many of the programming languages have become?
- pylua 2y ago
  They do a great job of keeping the language fresh, on many levels. Java streams, encryption, syntax updates. It doesn’t feel old to me.

signal11 2y ago

It’s not about Java hate. Historical context: Spring was a lightweight alternative to J2EE. It started and became popular in financial services because no one wanted the boilerplate hell that was J2EE. By your logic we should all have stuck to J2EE as that was what the vendor (Sun) was pushing. Today Spring has become the new J2EE. It’s no longer lightweight. It has a gravitational field at this point. (Except less boilerplate than J2EE because the Spring devs cared about dev ex more than J2EE’s creators did.) Like J2EE back then, today, once you step out of the “framework == language” mentality, you’ll see there’s a bunch of ways to achieve what Spring does for you. Often with less code, less magic, and faster. This is not to say Spring is always bad. Use it if it makes sense — for some small teams it may make a lot of sense. But don’t sleepwalk into it because “Java means Spring.” It doesn’t.