3 ms·

The US is a very odd choice to pick for free speech rights. It has had a terrible track record regarding free speech, especially throughout most of the 20th cen

The US is a very odd choice to pick for free speech rights. It has had a terrible track record regarding free speech, especially throughout most of the 20th century. Try advocating for communism from the 20s-80s or for the rights of black people in the 50s/60s/into-70s. Or say the wrong criticism in the early 2000s after 9/11. At best you get surveillance, at worst you’re dealing with FISA. We have not had any changes to the constitution to further protect speech, either.

meowface 2y ago
None of those things landed people in jail. The US, from a law standpoint, has had the strongest free speech protections of almost any country in history. The US has certainly had its problems, like widespread racism and the red scare, sure, but this is all relative to how other countries respond to speech with legal action.
- t-3 2y ago
  Every single one of those things landed people in jail. Many people also got sent to prison under the Espionage Act just for publicly opposing conscription during the wars of the 20th century.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- ath3nd 2y ago
  > None of those things landed people in jail. Literally all of those things did. - Equal rights activism https://calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/feb/1 https://calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/feb/1 - Communism activism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act_trials_of_Communist_Party_leaders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act_trials_of_Communist_... And don't even get me started on Snowden and Assange exposing the tremendous (war + civilian) crimes of the US government and being silenced and persecuted for it. > The US, from a law standpoint, has had the strongest free speech protections of almost any country in history. Absolutely false. It's not even in top 10. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-freedom-of-speech https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...
  - IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago
    >Absolutely false. It's not even in top 10. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries... You must be joking. Venezuela is 7th in the free speech index of that ranking. Furthermore, you have 4 EU countries in the ranking, all higher vs USA. Those 4 EU countries are subject to ECHR, which has ruled freedom of speech does not apply : - to protect the religious feelings of others [1] - to restrict content that was tasteless [2] - to say outrageous things [3] Yet, all 3 examples above are constitutionally protected in USA. This sort of thing makes it very difficult to take the rest of your commentary at face value. [1] https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/otto-preminger-institut-v-austria/ https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/otto-pr... [2] https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/leroy-v-france/ https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/leroy-v... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perin%C3%A7ek_v._Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perin%C3%A7ek_v._Switzerland
    - redserk 2y ago
      The US does not guarantee these rights either. “Free speech” is so ambiguously defined in the US that it’s effectively meaningless. The US has had over two centuries of ambiguously defined “free speech” rights at many different levels, any of which could be taken away depending on what state you’re in, what federal circuit you’re in, or if you’re lucky, the Supreme Court or Congress. So why do you consider yourself free when you do not know what defines free speech? Quite frankly, anyone tuned into history beyond the basics ought to recall that even the initial leaders of the country did not believe in free speech — Thomas Jefferson had quite illiberal views on what a free press entailed. For a modern example, providing abortion assistance is not free speech in the state of Texas.

meowface 2y ago

None of those things landed people in jail. The US, from a law standpoint, has had the strongest free speech protections of almost any country in history. The US has certainly had its problems, like widespread racism and the red scare, sure, but this is all relative to how other countries respond to speech with legal action.

t-3 2y ago
Every single one of those things landed people in jail. Many people also got sent to prison under the Espionage Act just for publicly opposing conscription during the wars of the 20th century.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ath3nd 2y ago
> None of those things landed people in jail. Literally all of those things did. - Equal rights activism https://calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/feb/1 https://calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/feb/1 - Communism activism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act_trials_of_Communist_Party_leaders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act_trials_of_Communist_... And don't even get me started on Snowden and Assange exposing the tremendous (war + civilian) crimes of the US government and being silenced and persecuted for it. > The US, from a law standpoint, has had the strongest free speech protections of almost any country in history. Absolutely false. It's not even in top 10. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-freedom-of-speech https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...
- IG_Semmelweiss 2y ago
  >Absolutely false. It's not even in top 10. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries... You must be joking. Venezuela is 7th in the free speech index of that ranking. Furthermore, you have 4 EU countries in the ranking, all higher vs USA. Those 4 EU countries are subject to ECHR, which has ruled freedom of speech does not apply : - to protect the religious feelings of others [1] - to restrict content that was tasteless [2] - to say outrageous things [3] Yet, all 3 examples above are constitutionally protected in USA. This sort of thing makes it very difficult to take the rest of your commentary at face value. [1] https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/otto-preminger-institut-v-austria/ https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/otto-pr... [2] https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/leroy-v-france/ https://globalfreedomofexpression.columbia.edu/cases/leroy-v... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perin%C3%A7ek_v._Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perin%C3%A7ek_v._Switzerland
  - redserk 2y ago
    The US does not guarantee these rights either. “Free speech” is so ambiguously defined in the US that it’s effectively meaningless. The US has had over two centuries of ambiguously defined “free speech” rights at many different levels, any of which could be taken away depending on what state you’re in, what federal circuit you’re in, or if you’re lucky, the Supreme Court or Congress. So why do you consider yourself free when you do not know what defines free speech? Quite frankly, anyone tuned into history beyond the basics ought to recall that even the initial leaders of the country did not believe in free speech — Thomas Jefferson had quite illiberal views on what a free press entailed. For a modern example, providing abortion assistance is not free speech in the state of Texas.