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> Spring is a battle tested, robust, optimized framework, that has scaled the largest brands in the world. It is literally what fortune five hundred companies t

by matrix2003 2y ago

> Spring is a battle tested, robust, optimized framework, that has scaled the largest brands in the world. It is literally what fortune five hundred companies trust their fortunes with. Spring is far from being outdated or inefficient, and will likely continue to dominate the market for years if not decades to come. I spit my coffee out on part of this one! I’ve been a Spring developer for the better part of the last 10 years, and it definitely has warts, bugs, undocumented behavior, and plenty of source code diving for half-implemented features. It does allow corporate middleware to easily be inserted, making management feel better and devs lives’ harder. Don’t get me wrong, it has a placed in “corporate” development, but there are much more streamlined frameworks out there. In today’s day and age where SDKs are readily available and APIs are mostly sane, I think it has less of a place.

foundart 2y ago
> but there are much more streamlined frameworks out there Which ones would you recommend instead of Spring?
- matrix2003 2y ago
  The answer is “it depends,” but personally I like ktor/micronaut better or golang’s stdlib. I do a lot of REST work right now, and I try to keep my services small.
  - karmakaze 2y ago
    I've also used Go without ORM-like libraries. For Java/Kotlin I've been trying out Javalin + JDBI which isn't too bad. You just have to roll your own things (or do the integration with what's available) sometimes. My apps start in 1/10s of seconds. I wouldn't recommend it for a team that's used to copy/pasting from StackOverflow to get things done.
signal11 2y ago
> I spit my coffee out on part of this one! I don’t know if the Spring team have dev evangelists, but I got a chuckle out of it too. Such a dev evangelist thing to say. I do agree with your assessment, btw.
karmakaze 2y ago
I refrained from replying as different folks have different experiences and views. I'll just leave this picture[0] of what I consider not optimized. Most of my beef is with JPA/JPQL/but-most-of-all-Hiberhate--it's a 2000's solution for a 1990's problem. [0] https://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2006/06/06/java-call-stack-from-http-upto-jdbc-as-a-picture/ https://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2006/06/06/java-call-stack-f...

foundart 2y ago

> but there are much more streamlined frameworks out there Which ones would you recommend instead of Spring?

matrix2003 2y ago
The answer is “it depends,” but personally I like ktor/micronaut better or golang’s stdlib. I do a lot of REST work right now, and I try to keep my services small.
- karmakaze 2y ago
  I've also used Go without ORM-like libraries. For Java/Kotlin I've been trying out Javalin + JDBI which isn't too bad. You just have to roll your own things (or do the integration with what's available) sometimes. My apps start in 1/10s of seconds. I wouldn't recommend it for a team that's used to copy/pasting from StackOverflow to get things done.

signal11 2y ago

> I spit my coffee out on part of this one! I don’t know if the Spring team have dev evangelists, but I got a chuckle out of it too. Such a dev evangelist thing to say. I do agree with your assessment, btw.

karmakaze 2y ago

I refrained from replying as different folks have different experiences and views. I'll just leave this picture[0] of what I consider not optimized. Most of my beef is with JPA/JPQL/but-most-of-all-Hiberhate--it's a 2000's solution for a 1990's problem. [0] https://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2006/06/06/java-call-stack-from-http-upto-jdbc-as-a-picture/ https://ptrthomas.wordpress.com/2006/06/06/java-call-stack-f...