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I don't think is realistic because there is no way to verify the intent of someone who is validated as a human without reading their minds. So this proposal of

I don't think is realistic because there is no way to verify the intent of someone who is validated as a human without reading their minds. So this proposal of closed internet and heavily walled gardens doesn't really work and it just leads to more sophisticated and harder to detect means of scraping that data. Think about it, if you have data that is so valuable that people are willing to put a paywall and throttle their usage at the expense of user experience, its most certainly going to be dumped in the public. Also this fear of LLM stealing your content is unwarranted. It's no different than somebody running compression algorithms on content they scraped so that its more accessible for the masses. From my readings and speaking with lawyers it appears the current copyright laws won't stand with LLMs because of the difficulty of reproducing the entire "compression" process which requires extreme amount of money to replicate. This is OpenAI and many other's legal defence. That there won't be attempts to replicate the underlying mechanism to prove copyright contents were used in the process. A carefully written prompt to replicate copyright work like with Suno can claim compensation pro delicto but to prove every piece of content will be difficult to claim LLM or token based attention networks are able to "steal" without building it from scratch, training it on millions of hours, especially if its closed and patented. So we might see people claiming victory over cases like Suno but they've already lost the bigger battle over LLM's legal status.

righthand 2y ago
The point of tying it to identity verification isn’t to stop bad actors immediately. It’s to identify bad actors. With the current way platforms are developed it is impossible to identify bad actors. In this case, a human content producer sees OpenAI as a bad actor for taking their content and not attributing or paying them for it. Normally their revenue might be attained from advertising dollars which an indexing bot will bypass. See I think that is only true for so long. People don't want easy ways to scrape data, they want to promote their efforts. Things could easily change which allow for easier identity verification. For example, Social Security numbers are seeing lots of criticism right now and there is call for a national digital ID that can be used instead. If a national ID were to be implemented it would offer a lane for something like verified access to happen. People already have a preference for platforms like Facebook where the farce is sold that it’s easier to identify real people by using it. Then you tack that on with copyright infringement and blatant stealing that is happening with LLMs and there will be enough of a momentum for people to close off. Especially on an internet where open platforms are constantly being attacked and devalued for being open. Content producers will only start sending minimal data to indexing bots, enough to get listed. SEO dependent sites will probably perish in this era. Legal battles wont even matter if society shifts that way.
- deisteve 2y ago
  in South Korea you are required to enter your civil identity number. it was invented during the 60s to counter north korean espionage. almost all korean websites require this 8 digit number to gain access to walled off gardens. are you suggesting the same thing?
  - righthand 2y ago
    No I am suggesting that some websites will lean this way the more the good will is abused and people are displaced. Why would I continue to blog for pennies if everyone is just going to ask a Chat bot? I am merely trying to illustrate how close that possibility is. The same way that you’re behind captcha wall for many sites. Imagine how that rots.

righthand 2y ago

The point of tying it to identity verification isn’t to stop bad actors immediately. It’s to identify bad actors. With the current way platforms are developed it is impossible to identify bad actors. In this case, a human content producer sees OpenAI as a bad actor for taking their content and not attributing or paying them for it. Normally their revenue might be attained from advertising dollars which an indexing bot will bypass. See I think that is only true for so long. People don't want easy ways to scrape data, they want to promote their efforts. Things could easily change which allow for easier identity verification. For example, Social Security numbers are seeing lots of criticism right now and there is call for a national digital ID that can be used instead. If a national ID were to be implemented it would offer a lane for something like verified access to happen. People already have a preference for platforms like Facebook where the farce is sold that it’s easier to identify real people by using it. Then you tack that on with copyright infringement and blatant stealing that is happening with LLMs and there will be enough of a momentum for people to close off. Especially on an internet where open platforms are constantly being attacked and devalued for being open. Content producers will only start sending minimal data to indexing bots, enough to get listed. SEO dependent sites will probably perish in this era. Legal battles wont even matter if society shifts that way.

deisteve 2y ago
in South Korea you are required to enter your civil identity number. it was invented during the 60s to counter north korean espionage. almost all korean websites require this 8 digit number to gain access to walled off gardens. are you suggesting the same thing?
- righthand 2y ago
  No I am suggesting that some websites will lean this way the more the good will is abused and people are displaced. Why would I continue to blog for pennies if everyone is just going to ask a Chat bot? I am merely trying to illustrate how close that possibility is. The same way that you’re behind captcha wall for many sites. Imagine how that rots.