3 ms·

Also possibly the most time consuming. Best and efficient with time are two different metrics.

by kqr 2y ago

practicemaths 2y ago
What is consider efficient if it yields less best results? I understand time constraints and end goals may prohibit the 'best' approach. What I do not understand is how can you say something is more 'efficient' if the yield in understanding is less than what you would get with another method. Hopefully this will clarify my thought process here: If 'Best' is to teach others and requires 10,000 hours to yield 90-99% understanding. In contrast, 'Efficient' method requires 2,500 hours to yield 30-40% understanding. However, there is diminishing returns meaning that doubling your hours to 5,000 does not return you with 60-80% understanding, rather maybe closer to 50-60% understanding. With 7,500 hours closer to 65-70% and 10,000 hours may around 75-89% understanding. Here you've spent the same amount of time but did not achieve the same level of understanding. I think you may have a dynamic 'Best' vs 'Efficient' curve and to switch between those options to optimize maximizing your level of understanding in the least amount of time.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  The problem I have with this argument is that you cannot consider "efficiency" in a vacuum. You need to have a metric against which to measure it. Consider these two scenarios - Goal: remember where to look up information when it comes up in $JOB Metric: how much you remember, how quickly you find the info Goal: discover new hyper-efficient method of training an AI (or insert popular ML topic here). Metric: percent improvement vs current pubished best practice (deliberately vague) Required understanding to make progress: "like a Ph.D. from Stanford" Now you can possibly measure something. The idea achievement of "90% understanding" is VERY topic dependent. Simple topic? Sure 100% understanding, I remembered the Latin names of all of the plants in my house. Complicated topic? The information for "100% understanding" might not even be written in the textbook - it probably includes things like seeing the interconnections between the topics and being able to apply them in slightly different contexts. Make sure you read the studies so you know what they're talking about. In this area, I think summaries are frequently misleading. You have to know what the real evidence is that substantiates the claims. (I cannot tell you how many times I have looked at the evidence and just rolled my eyes - obviously not applicable in settings where I wanted it to be.) Edit: See this comment (not me) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41275869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41275869
  - Swizec 2y ago
    > Complicated topic? The information for "100% understanding" might not even be written Bjarne Stroustop, creator of C, famously rates his C knowledge as 7/10
    - Jtsummers 2y ago
      I suspect you mean C++, not C.
  - chrisweekly 2y ago
    Tangent: efficiency nearly always comes at the expense of flexibility.
shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago
Yes, possibly the most time consuming if you are thinking of writing a book. How effective something is comes with what is best and compromise effectiveness for efficiency.
consf 2y ago
Efficiency and effectiveness are indeed different metrics. And I think balancing time and retention needs is key
- shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago
  Different metrics can be interdependent, efficiency and effectiveness are among them.
hinkley 2y ago
Someday you will die. Then you will die again when people forget you. Only the effect you’ve had on the world, including teaching others, who pass that along, outlives that second death. So what’s this about efficiency? You should be more worried about effectiveness, not efficiency. Particularly in this profession.
- shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago
  Best thing I have read after a long time. Thank you!
- maksimur 2y ago
  > Someday you will die. Then you will die again when people forget you. I've already heard that line somewhere but can't remember where and who said it.
  - zoogeny 2y ago
    It's one of those quotes that gets attributed to a lot of different people. Here is goodreads claiming it was Ernest Hemingway [1]. “Every man has two deaths, when he is buried in the ground and the last time someone says his name. In some ways men can be immortal.” 1. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9556005-every-man-has-two-deaths-when-he-is-buried-in https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9556005-every-man-has-two-d...
    - hinkley 2y ago
      All I know is whoever said it wasn’t a teacher.
      - shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago
        Whoever said it was obviously a teacher or else you do not understand what this line is trying to teach others.

Also possibly the most time consuming. Best and efficient with time are two different metrics.

by kqr 2y ago

Also possibly the most time consuming. Best and efficient with time are two different metrics.

What is consider efficient if it yields less best results? I understand time constraints and end goals may prohibit the 'best' approach. What I do not understand is how can you say something is more 'efficient' if the yield in understanding is less than what you would get with another method. Hopefully this will clarify my thought process here: If 'Best' is to teach others and requires 10,000 hours to yield 90-99% understanding. In contrast, 'Efficient' method requires 2,500 hours to yield 30-40% understanding. However, there is diminishing returns meaning that doubling your hours to 5,000 does not return you with 60-80% understanding, rather maybe closer to 50-60% understanding. With 7,500 hours closer to 65-70% and 10,000 hours may around 75-89% understanding. Here you've spent the same amount of time but did not achieve the same level of understanding. I think you may have a dynamic 'Best' vs 'Efficient' curve and to switch between those options to optimize maximizing your level of understanding in the least amount of time.

fn-mote 2y ago
The problem I have with this argument is that you cannot consider "efficiency" in a vacuum. You need to have a metric against which to measure it. Consider these two scenarios - Goal: remember where to look up information when it comes up in $JOB Metric: how much you remember, how quickly you find the info Goal: discover new hyper-efficient method of training an AI (or insert popular ML topic here). Metric: percent improvement vs current pubished best practice (deliberately vague) Required understanding to make progress: "like a Ph.D. from Stanford" Now you can possibly measure something. The idea achievement of "90% understanding" is VERY topic dependent. Simple topic? Sure 100% understanding, I remembered the Latin names of all of the plants in my house. Complicated topic? The information for "100% understanding" might not even be written in the textbook - it probably includes things like seeing the interconnections between the topics and being able to apply them in slightly different contexts. Make sure you read the studies so you know what they're talking about. In this area, I think summaries are frequently misleading. You have to know what the real evidence is that substantiates the claims. (I cannot tell you how many times I have looked at the evidence and just rolled my eyes - obviously not applicable in settings where I wanted it to be.) Edit: See this comment (not me) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41275869 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41275869
- Swizec 2y ago
  > Complicated topic? The information for "100% understanding" might not even be written Bjarne Stroustop, creator of C, famously rates his C knowledge as 7/10
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    I suspect you mean C++, not C.
- chrisweekly 2y ago
  Tangent: efficiency nearly always comes at the expense of flexibility.

shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago

Yes, possibly the most time consuming if you are thinking of writing a book. How effective something is comes with what is best and compromise effectiveness for efficiency.

consf 2y ago

Efficiency and effectiveness are indeed different metrics. And I think balancing time and retention needs is key

shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago
Different metrics can be interdependent, efficiency and effectiveness are among them.

hinkley 2y ago

Someday you will die. Then you will die again when people forget you. Only the effect you’ve had on the world, including teaching others, who pass that along, outlives that second death. So what’s this about efficiency? You should be more worried about effectiveness, not efficiency. Particularly in this profession.

shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago
Best thing I have read after a long time. Thank you!
maksimur 2y ago
> Someday you will die. Then you will die again when people forget you. I've already heard that line somewhere but can't remember where and who said it.
- zoogeny 2y ago
  It's one of those quotes that gets attributed to a lot of different people. Here is goodreads claiming it was Ernest Hemingway [1]. “Every man has two deaths, when he is buried in the ground and the last time someone says his name. In some ways men can be immortal.” 1. https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9556005-every-man-has-two-deaths-when-he-is-buried-in https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/9556005-every-man-has-two-d...
  - hinkley 2y ago
    All I know is whoever said it wasn’t a teacher.
    - shahzaibmushtaq 2y ago
      Whoever said it was obviously a teacher or else you do not understand what this line is trying to teach others.