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> They have been led astray. They haven't though. What's wrong with using a tool even if it might be bad? Especially as a fresh user. It's how we learn. From b

• roenxi 2y ago
  > Especially as a fresh user. It's how we learn. From both good and bad experiences. I'd do that, but a superior strategy is letting other people make mistakes and then learning from them. It is best to always be making choices that seem like they could be optimal, with very rare exceptions.
  • re-thc 2y ago
    > but a superior strategy is letting other people make mistakes and then learning from them If this was a superior strategy that was so obvious no 1 would be making mistakes so how does this work? Not everything is strictly better. And by that logic... >> the superior strategy is letting other people comment (and make mistakes) and then learn from them i.e. don't read the post until years later to ensure you have all the mistakes and learnings. Sorry, this thread is still live.
    • duckmysick 2y ago
      > If this was a superior strategy that was so obvious no 1 would be making mistakes so how does this work? Either people aren't aware of an optimal strategy (if one exists) or they ignore it for various reason. The latter is surprisingly common. People know they should exercise, get enough sleep, eat healthy, stay hydrated, tackle high priority tasks instead of procrastinating, etc. - and yet they still aren't doing those things (or as much as they should). Knowing something is not enough.
      • re-thc 2y ago
        > Either people aren't aware of an optimal strategy (if one exists) or they ignore it for various reason. And my point was precisely that it often doesn't exist. What is an optimal strategy? > People know they should exercise, get enough sleep, eat healthy, stay hydrated, tackle high priority tasks instead of procrastinating, etc. - and yet they still aren't doing those things (or as much as they should). > Knowing something is not enough. Your example doesn't even support this. People know they have to get enough sleep but they also know they have to <insert something else>. It depends on what they are optimizing for. i.e. there is no singular optimal strategy. You've just proved my point rather than yours. I don't know if knowing is not enough, but clearly the people in your example don't know what the optimal strategy is. E.g. eating healthy is NOT the optimal strategy as it could make them unhappy (e.g. don't like the taste). It's not optimal unless it's strictly better.
    • roenxi 2y ago
      > If this was a superior strategy that was so obvious no 1 would be making mistakes so how does this work? I agree with duckmysick, and also please take note that having a strategy of not making mistakes will not avoid all mistakes. Outcomes and intent never match up perfectly. But that is why it is important to learn from others right from the start.
      • re-thc 2y ago
        > I agree with duckmysick > But that is why it is important to learn from others right from the start. It's important if you know what you're learning but... What do you even agree with? i.e. what's the learning? >> duckmysick claims people ignore the optimal strategy but could not even give an example of 1. This proves it's better to try it yourself than to assume you're learning and make even worse mistakes. > and also please take note that having a strategy of not making mistakes will not avoid all mistakes Where is the strategy to begin with? 0 + 0 was 0 to begin with.
  • DarkNova6 2y ago
    I agree. But unless you are at least tangentially involved, you are likely not to hear such „gone bad“ stories. First, people are not nearly as self reflective or admit to failures at all. And second, a bad tech decision might not be directly observable (as you will then often see ppl fighting symptoms rather than change and identify the root cause).
• regularfry 2y ago
  MongoDB salesdroids rely heavily on you having a low familiarity with other database tech to spin themselves as the only game in town. "Being led astray" isn't a passive, ambient occurence, and it makes sense to push back against it.
  • afiori 2y ago
    On the other hand I know of multiple databases where all tables had attribute_1, attribute_2,..., attribute_5 columns Just in Case™ But more seriously the one feature I like in MongoDB is the pipeline API, where you can express a complex query with multiple filters/aggregations/transformations/joins as a list of simple steps. There are some use cases where it is very ergonomic (even if I suspect that mongo can easily lose indexes along the steps so pretty performance might not be super intuitive)
    • regularfry 2y ago
      It's honestly difficult to see how this is relevant. There's a difference between just not knowing any better and being misled for money.
    • afiori 2y ago
      I forgot about what I hate about mongo, so I will rant here about it: its data model is close enough but different enough from json to be both annoying and dangerous. The empty string is a valid json key but not a mongo document key. Mongo uses $operator keys to serialize its datatypes to json but does not sanitise the result: which means that {"foo":100000000000000000} and {"foo":{"$longInteger":"100000000000000000"}} will have a collision with the json export format. (Even if you choose the fully explicit Canonical format as there is no $document operator to wrap ambiguous documents) So if your plan is to dump json to mongo you should plan for that (also sometimes $operators are evaluated sometimes they are not, it depends on each method and the documentation does not tell you ) The official client (both csv and json) is unable to export a collection if a field is both a value field both an atomic value and an object, so a collection with two documents: {a:1} and {a:{b:1}} will cause problems of you try to export it. My colleagues have other issues with the json DSL and how most operators exist in 2-3 different forms with different syntax or how the syntax {$operator:{arg1:..., arg2:...}} is unintuitive but I actually sort of like it.
• j45 2y ago
  Some people think it’s them and double down with using a bad tool for the job.