3 ms·

Let's remember the other fact hidden behind this store of a free to play peddler: Due to governmental pressure, we have a chance to get a browser that can run

Let's remember the other fact hidden behind this store of a free to play peddler: Due to governmental pressure, we have a chance to get a browser that can run uBlock Origin on iOS in the future...

viherjuuri 2y ago
I haven’t looked into the issue at all, so can you tell me what is wrong with the current content-blocking features in mobile safari that prevent ublock origin from working? AdGuard works fine, but that in itself doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
caslon 2y ago
uBO already runs on iOS. Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. They also don't care about you having extensions on Android; their most recent redesign left Android Firefox users without extensions for months. Mozilla is an ad-supported company from every angle: Pocket, search deal, the ads built into Firefox. Why don't they get more of the blame for the current state of the browser ecosystem?
- nottorp 2y ago
  > Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. What's Orion, and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? > The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. Agree with Mozilla's decay, but there's also a Chrome for iOS and that doesn't have uBlock Origin either, does it?
  - caslon 2y ago
    Chrome on Android doesn't support browser extensions. Google is an advertising company. They are not incentivized to allow extensions. Extensions block their ads, and are a risk vector for mobile users, who are often young, inexperienced, and running outdated systems software. > What's Orion A web browser, using the same Webkit as everybody else on iOS, with support for browser extensions. People give Apple too much flak for the mismanagement or warped incentives of browser vendors. Lack of extensions in existing browsers isn't their fault to any degree. > and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? There's not a separate spec for "mobile" Firefox extensions and desktop browser extensions. Google WebExtensions. It's an open standard that desktop Firefox follows and that Chrome almost does.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      I’m going to note that you haven’t said “yes you can run uBlock Origin with browser X”.
      - caslon 2y ago
        It obviously can. My first sentence was "uBO already runs on iOS." You asked if Orion was compatible with "normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions." There's no distinction between desktop Firefox extensions and mobile ones! Addons on both are just standard WebExtensions, and I've already noted that it runs both Chrome and Firefox extensions. https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions Your lack of understanding of what browser extensions are is exactly why it would be better if Apple explicitly banned browser extensions from the App Store. Ignorance is a malware vector, and even you, a commentator on Hacker News, do not understand the browser extension ecosystem. Instead, they're taking a bunch of flak for something they aren't even doing, all the while iOS has had a browser supporting uBO for years.
        cma 2y ago
        "I noticed similar issues. I think the reason is that Orion on iOS supports fewer Web Extension APIs than it does on desktop (see the list below). As far as I know, uBlock Origin makes heavy use of the webRequest API, and this seems to be mostly unsupported on iOS. So I decided for me to use uBlock Origin only with the Mac version and rely on Orion’s built-in content blocking on iOS." "When using the uBlock Origin browser extension on iPhone or iPad, it is unable to block any ads or trackers on webpages. The displayed interception count always remains at 0. This result is consistent whether downloading the version from Chrome or Firefox's software store." Sounds like from that (may be out of date, some posts complaining are 15 days ago though), it runs but doesn't work: https://orionfeedback.org/d/7741-ublock-origin-not-working-on-websites/6 https://orionfeedback.org/d/7741-ublock-origin-not-working-o... This is in there officially from Orion: "This is because Apple limitations, we will continue to improve Orion's native ad-block." You should maybe give an apology unless you've been actually using it successfully with all features, not just installed it successfully. Firefox Android actually runs real uBlock Origin in the ways you would expect.
- Neywiny 2y ago
  Caveating a few things: Firefox nightly works pretty much just as well and as stably as the regular build and brings back extensions. Months ago they did something with PDFs that made them ridiculously slow, and nightly for some reason doesn't let me open PDFs in other apps like stable does. But the combo works for me. I agree that this is Mozilla's fault, though. Until most websites stopped working (how is beyond me but for example github wouldn't let me click links) I used the last version before the redesign
- johnnypangs 2y ago
  You can install ublock origin but it doesn’t actually do anything on Orion on iOS. I tested it not too long ago, maybe things have changed but Orion still uses WebKit and iOSes APIs. I have heard Orion’s default ad blocker isn’t bad though.
brigadier132 2y ago
not just uBlock origin, we can get browsers that are not webkit. WebKit is crippled and always behind in standards implementations.
- nottorp 2y ago
  > we can get browsers that are not webkit That's good for how to call it, diversity, yes. > WebKit is crippled and always behind in standards implementations. I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google. At best we'll get a duopoly instead of a monopoly, like we have with the actual phone operating systems.
  - brigadier132 2y ago
    It's crippled in ways beyond standards implementations. WebKit can't use more than 500mb per tab in iOs and third party browsers are not allowed to use full screen mode. This is to prevent actual web apps from being viable. > I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google This mindset makes 0 sense. Yes, things like http/3 and webtransport benefit google, but it also benefits literally everyone else not named Apple.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      > WebKit can't use more than 500mb per tab in iOs SO MUCH? Do I look like i can afford infinite ram? > benefits literally everyone else not named Apple. No, it seems to me it benefits javascript app developers in addition to Google. I see zero benefit for the users.
      - brigadier132 2y ago
        Benefits javascript developers? I'm writing rust and compiling to webassembly. > I see zero benefit for the users You seem to think that all the web apps that exist would just be native apps if the web didn't support js. Your way of thinking reeks of 4chan/g from 2005. Next you are going to start complaining about "bloat". Also fyi, people that create things tend to be users of their own creations.
rldjbpin 2y ago
for all intents and purposes, brave on ios provides plenty ad-block capabilities to do the job. with altstore grant from epic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41250470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41250470), it should hopefully be easier to onboard more proper alternatives.

Let's remember the other fact hidden behind this store of a free to play peddler: Due to governmental pressure, we have a chance to get a browser that can run uBlock Origin on iOS in the future...

viherjuuri 2y ago

I haven’t looked into the issue at all, so can you tell me what is wrong with the current content-blocking features in mobile safari that prevent ublock origin from working? AdGuard works fine, but that in itself doesn’t necessarily mean anything.

caslon 2y ago

uBO already runs on iOS. Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. They also don't care about you having extensions on Android; their most recent redesign left Android Firefox users without extensions for months. Mozilla is an ad-supported company from every angle: Pocket, search deal, the ads built into Firefox. Why don't they get more of the blame for the current state of the browser ecosystem?

nottorp 2y ago
> Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. What's Orion, and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? > The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. Agree with Mozilla's decay, but there's also a Chrome for iOS and that doesn't have uBlock Origin either, does it?
- caslon 2y ago
  Chrome on Android doesn't support browser extensions. Google is an advertising company. They are not incentivized to allow extensions. Extensions block their ads, and are a risk vector for mobile users, who are often young, inexperienced, and running outdated systems software. > What's Orion A web browser, using the same Webkit as everybody else on iOS, with support for browser extensions. People give Apple too much flak for the mismanagement or warped incentives of browser vendors. Lack of extensions in existing browsers isn't their fault to any degree. > and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? There's not a separate spec for "mobile" Firefox extensions and desktop browser extensions. Google WebExtensions. It's an open standard that desktop Firefox follows and that Chrome almost does.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    I’m going to note that you haven’t said “yes you can run uBlock Origin with browser X”.
    - caslon 2y ago
      It obviously can. My first sentence was "uBO already runs on iOS." You asked if Orion was compatible with "normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions." There's no distinction between desktop Firefox extensions and mobile ones! Addons on both are just standard WebExtensions, and I've already noted that it runs both Chrome and Firefox extensions. https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebExtensions Your lack of understanding of what browser extensions are is exactly why it would be better if Apple explicitly banned browser extensions from the App Store. Ignorance is a malware vector, and even you, a commentator on Hacker News, do not understand the browser extension ecosystem. Instead, they're taking a bunch of flak for something they aren't even doing, all the while iOS has had a browser supporting uBO for years.
      - cma 2y ago
        "I noticed similar issues. I think the reason is that Orion on iOS supports fewer Web Extension APIs than it does on desktop (see the list below). As far as I know, uBlock Origin makes heavy use of the webRequest API, and this seems to be mostly unsupported on iOS. So I decided for me to use uBlock Origin only with the Mac version and rely on Orion’s built-in content blocking on iOS." "When using the uBlock Origin browser extension on iPhone or iPad, it is unable to block any ads or trackers on webpages. The displayed interception count always remains at 0. This result is consistent whether downloading the version from Chrome or Firefox's software store." Sounds like from that (may be out of date, some posts complaining are 15 days ago though), it runs but doesn't work: https://orionfeedback.org/d/7741-ublock-origin-not-working-on-websites/6 https://orionfeedback.org/d/7741-ublock-origin-not-working-o... This is in there officially from Orion: "This is because Apple limitations, we will continue to improve Orion's native ad-block." You should maybe give an apology unless you've been actually using it successfully with all features, not just installed it successfully. Firefox Android actually runs real uBlock Origin in the ways you would expect.
Neywiny 2y ago
Caveating a few things: Firefox nightly works pretty much just as well and as stably as the regular build and brings back extensions. Months ago they did something with PDFs that made them ridiculously slow, and nightly for some reason doesn't let me open PDFs in other apps like stable does. But the combo works for me. I agree that this is Mozilla's fault, though. Until most websites stopped working (how is beyond me but for example github wouldn't let me click links) I used the last version before the redesign
johnnypangs 2y ago
You can install ublock origin but it doesn’t actually do anything on Orion on iOS. I tested it not too long ago, maybe things have changed but Orion still uses WebKit and iOSes APIs. I have heard Orion’s default ad blocker isn’t bad though.

brigadier132 2y ago

not just uBlock origin, we can get browsers that are not webkit. WebKit is crippled and always behind in standards implementations.

nottorp 2y ago
> we can get browsers that are not webkit That's good for how to call it, diversity, yes. > WebKit is crippled and always behind in standards implementations. I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google. At best we'll get a duopoly instead of a monopoly, like we have with the actual phone operating systems.
- brigadier132 2y ago
  It's crippled in ways beyond standards implementations. WebKit can't use more than 500mb per tab in iOs and third party browsers are not allowed to use full screen mode. This is to prevent actual web apps from being viable. > I would cry a river except the standards you're mentioning are mostly made to benefit Google This mindset makes 0 sense. Yes, things like http/3 and webtransport benefit google, but it also benefits literally everyone else not named Apple.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > WebKit can't use more than 500mb per tab in iOs SO MUCH? Do I look like i can afford infinite ram? > benefits literally everyone else not named Apple. No, it seems to me it benefits javascript app developers in addition to Google. I see zero benefit for the users.
    - brigadier132 2y ago
      Benefits javascript developers? I'm writing rust and compiling to webassembly. > I see zero benefit for the users You seem to think that all the web apps that exist would just be native apps if the web didn't support js. Your way of thinking reeks of 4chan/g from 2005. Next you are going to start complaining about "bloat". Also fyi, people that create things tend to be users of their own creations.

rldjbpin 2y ago

for all intents and purposes, brave on ios provides plenty ad-block capabilities to do the job. with altstore grant from epic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41250470 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41250470), it should hopefully be easier to onboard more proper alternatives.