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> You are effectively buying those labour protections with the difference in salary. Yes. And I appreciate those labor protections enough that I gladly pay for
by surgical_fire 2y ago
> You are effectively buying those labour protections with the difference in salary.
Yes. And I appreciate those labor protections enough that I gladly pay for them.
I could still buy a car, a house, raise a family, have some savings, etc.
The stability and security provided by the labor protections are very much appreciated, a lot more than some extra cash would be.
- nudgeee 2y agoThat, and the peace of mind of not being fired at-will when economic times aren’t so good.
- ekianjo 2y agothis also means companies are much more hesitant to hire
- madeofpalk 2y agoI would rather companies be a lot more deliberate about hiring people rather than just hiring and firing willy nilly.
- consp 2y agoHaving short term contracts solved this a long time ago and is mostly a fallacy.
- refurb 2y agoHow is a short term contract a solution? It sounds like you don’t have a job at the end of the contract?
- lazyasciiart 2y agoYes, but you know when that will happen.
- lazide 2y agoSoon. Maybe, since it could get renewed eh? The US also has contractors.
- Leherenn 2y agoShort term contracts have pretty big downsides though. It's basically impossible to get a mortgage on a short term contract, or more generally any kind of loan. Even renting is difficult. That's why many EU countries have pretty strict limitations on short term contracts, like how many you can do in a row. It results in a huge reliance on contractors.
- lazide 2y agoShort term contracts are basically taking the entirety of the ‘shit’ end of the stick for someone else, and are way worse than the median tech job in the US conditions wise.
- ekianjo 2y agonope. you dont invest the same way in a 6 month contractor that you are not sure to renew down the road as you would for a full time employee. And this goes both ways. The contractor has not much incentive to perform well either.
- Timon3 2y ago> And this goes both ways. The contractor has not much incentive to perform well either. Can you explain your thoughts here a bit further? The short term contract can be renewed or replaced with a full time contract. This should provide extra incentive to perform well compared to a full time employee (who doesn't have to worry about either), as long the as the company is a good employer.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago>The short term contract can be renewed or replaced with a full time contract. As someone in games, this is exactly the road to getting exploited. "If I work harder and really wow them with this feature, I could get full time work!" meanwhile, there were plans to not renew anyone at the end of the project and to lay off full time workers. But you get a convinient carrot to lure starry-eyed devs with Your "as long as the company is a good employer" is doing Atlas levels of lifing here.
- Timon3 2y agoSure, that's my point. There is nothing inherent in short term contracts that makes employees less invested - that's your fault as a company.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoBurn too much good will and people will treat the contract as a contract. And not a hope to impress the boss for a ft role. Another short term exploitation that turns into long term cynicism. I don't think that's happening in games or tech, but it's been widely observed that Gen Z is less invested in corporate than ever before (or from the boomer's POV: "nobody wants to work anymore").
- surgical_fire 2y agoEhh, this is bullshit. Companies will hire when they need. It actually makes companies more hesitant to fire.
- ekianjo 2y agomore hesitant to fire means they are more hesitant to hire. that 100% goes together.
- wkat4242 2y agoSo what. Getting jobs isn't a problem here, on the contrary.
- littlestymaar 2y agoEmployment figures for Ireland or Germany aren't far from their US counterpart. And on the other hand, the French government dramatically loosened the rules around layoffs in 2016 (you can let people go as soon as you have a decline in sales over a few month, a negative cash flow over the same period, if their are new competitors on your market, or even just if there's technological change in your sector that justifies getting rid of people). It was 8 years ago and it has had little to no impact on France's unemployment, which is still very high.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoI'd rather go through a bigger hoop one time every 10 years or more than the current circus of being let go every 2-3 years and needing to re-interview. The latter just means I spend part of my free time worrying about the next job hop by studying trivia, instead of doing something I actually like to do.
- halversoncael 2y ago[dead]
- Iulioh 2y agoAnd the money is not the only problem, Europe is CHEAP compared to America, it's fascinating. I heard that wges are less than 50% but you end up saving more
- mschuster91 2y ago> Europe is CHEAP compared to America, it's fascinating. Yup. Cost of living is insanely low compared to the US, even when just comparing hotbeds like Silicon Valley vs London/Berlin/Munich, with the largest factor being housing. Additionally, healthcare costs are far lower as well - there is no such thing as co-pays, surprise bills and whatnot here (although I do admit some things like dental and vision care aren't covered by insurance, but generally still affordable).
- brabel 2y agoInteresting, but as someone who visits the USA sometimes for short work/tourist trips, food and drinks are much cheaper pretty much anywhere except maybe California. And because that's most of what you spend on during short trips, not counting hotels (which are about the same price as Europe) to me the USA is a paradise of cheap drinks and large meals :D (but yeah, Europe wins on quality).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rsynnott 2y agoThis actually used not be the case. About six years ago I was in San Francisco for work, and was surprised how inexpensive it was. Like, it wasn’t cheap, but I’d heard it talked up as basically the most expensive place in the world, and it was largely cheaper than Dublin. Going back recently, it’s a _lot_ more expensive; home has gotten more expensive too, but not at the same rate. (Some of this is due to the currency thing, of course; the dollar was about as weak as it ever got post-financial crisis in 2018.)
- maccard 2y ago
- caskstrength 2y ago> I could still buy a car, a house, raise a family, have some savings, etc. You are an outlier. Very few SDEs in EU can afford to raise a family in their own SFH on a single salary while living in a location with any notable IT jobs market.
- badpun 2y agoIn Poland, it's not hard. I suspect some other EE countries are similar. Western Europe is harder, with high marginal tax rates and super-expensive real estate.
- surgical_fire 2y ago> You are an outlier No I am definitely not. In every company I worked for, in three different countries, my coworkers were in similar situations.