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Google removed Organic Maps from the Play Store
- skar3 2y agoI hope this gets resolved, OrganicMaps is a great app for OSM and is crucial to increasing OSM adoption
- Freak_NL 2y agoWhy does Google communicate like this? Anyone reviewing OraganicMaps will instantly judge it not to be some scam or malicious app. So why the completely useless message? Nowhere do they actually say what OrganicMaps is doing wrong. I'm sure the answer is 'automated review process, humans are expensive', but it's really fucked up to see a huge corporation like Google just removing one of the two most well-known OpenStreetMap apps like that (the other being OsmAnd). If you use Android: get free software apps like these from F-Droid.
- Freak_NL 2y agoConsidering the fact that OrganicMaps shows a map of the world, it might be something as daft as allowing children to look up where the nearest brothel is… (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbrothel https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dbrothel)
- sundvor 2y agoLol, you can find these with Google Maps. Tested in Melbourne, Australia in an incognito Google Maps web session. Brothels are legal here.
- Freak_NL 2y agoI didn't even consider the legality (they're legal in the Netherlands), but I was thinking more along the lines of Google's 'Family Policy' mentioned in the Tweet (Xeet?).
- RicoElectrico 2y agoGoogle Maps is PEGI 3 though.
- sam_lowry_ 2y agoYou need Overpass Turbo for that or OsmAnd~ although I always forget how to search there. This is hilarious but brothels search and bbq area search are the two Overpass Turbo shortcuts in my browser.
- Freak_NL 2y agoNow I'm just curious if the two ever overlap. A BBQ brothel does kind of sound like a business opportunity.
- redsparrow 2y agoThat was my thought. Somewhere on the planet there's something that has a sexual explicit name and the take down is based on that.
- hedora 2y agoThey probably should yank chrome and the app store while they’re at it then.
- h_tbob 2y agoGoogle play review process is tough because you can’t have conversation with them. Apple lets you
- biodranik 2y agoThis wasn't a review process for a new update. The already approved app version was unexpectedly removed without any warnings.
- atoav 2y agoGoogle acting like a monopolist. Would they ever apply the same scrutiny towards their own apps? Can you imagine Google maps being taken off the play store without being given a reason? I filed a support issue in the play store complaining about being unable to install the app. But quite frankly this should be a case for antitrust.
- luuurker 2y agoI don't think there's malicious intent here because Organic Maps is a very small app compared to other "map apps", Google isn't afraid of them. Incompetence? Perhaps. Also, every store makes mistakes from time to time. On top of this, the Play Store is just one of the few stores you can have on Android. Organic Maps itself can be installed via F-Droid, Huawei's store, Aptoide, etc, not to mention that you can download the apk from their site/Github and install it. I'd agree with you if this was about Google Search or something like that, but Android apps? I don't see any monopoly there.
- sleepless 2y agoAnd here's the Fediverse post about the incident if you don't want to click on a twitter link https://fosstodon.org/@organicmaps/112976308191001762 https://fosstodon.org/@organicmaps/112976308191001762
- rapnie 2y agoIt would be better if the HN submission link was updated, as it has way more engagement than on X.
- RicoElectrico 2y ago@dang
- ben_w 2y agoFYI, that does nothing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27545206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27545206
- chrisan 2y agoYou got me to click, thinking there would be some kind of insight, but then I was greeted with people arguing over "last night" vs "that night" typo.
- seanthemon 2y agoI had a good laugh at this, how ridiculous
- luuurker 2y agoHumans will always be humans, independently of the platform. :-P In any case, at least we can see the replies and other posts from the account without having to create an account. Still better than Twitter/X in my view.
- justaj 2y ago
- sam_lowry_ 2y agoJust used it yesterday. It's a great little app to browse OSM data as it is. Much better than Google Maps at finding walkable trails. If only it had the features of overpass turbo, e.g. searching for points tagged with specific attributes.
- lioeters 2y agoI agree, Organic Maps is often better than Google Maps for walkable trails, bicycle and hiking paths. I found there are some paths mapped on OSM that are not mapped at all on GMaps. On the other hand, GMaps is better for up-to-date commercial data like stores and their opening hours. Its navigation system is better too. As much as I'd like to drop all Google services from my life, Maps is too useful to let go.
- beardyw 2y agoWhat's wrong with OSM itself?
- ah27182 2y agoIs OSM good at keeping up-to-date with commercial data? I always thought it wasn’t so good, but maybe I’m wrong
- beardyw 2y agoWe seemed to be talking about trails. Maybe I misunderstood.
- jbaber 2y agoNo. Even though I navigate with Osmand regularly, I must use Gmaps to find stores' existence, address, hours, phone number, url. Gmaps is the yellow pages. Osmand is a map.
- ihatehn 2y agoOSM can have those details it just takes a local community on top of keeping things updated. Even Google often relies on users for that stuff.
- andrepd 2y agoOh it's just another multi-trillion dollar company operating with near unlimited discretion in the domain in which it's a (mono|duo)polist. What else is new? Anything else than turbo-capitalism is so out of fashion these days, even things like "utilities" regulation as applied to e.g. phone companies in the 20th century is now decidedly out of scope. We will continue to have these hugely profitable companies bully competitors and extend their tentacles everywhere until states do something about it. -- The unspecified "you have violated our terms of service ergo your account has been closed / your data has been deleted / you can't open this page or this app, no appeal or review allowed" is a pretty insidious example of this prepotence.
- stavros 2y agoYou're right, this needs regulation. We're already seeing the reaction in the EU with the DMA, I hope it continues.
- vollbrecht 2y agoThat's why AppStore monopolize are such a chore. There is no independent judicial authority if something between Google and a App Provider goes wrong. Google playing legeslative, executive and judiciary in one entity. There is a reason most people in democratic countries don't like it, if there country has all the powers in one hand. At the same time it seams to be accepted for cooperation, as long as there are big enough.
- grishka 2y agoThis isn't as much of a problem on Android because it allows installing apks. There's plenty of apps that couldn't possibly be allowed in Google Play that are distributed using alternative means. It's a much more serious problem with iOS, where if Apple doesn't like your app, your service, your policies, or even your attitude, you just aren't getting your app out to your users, period. But we'll see where EU DMA takes this.
- cube00 2y agoGood luck getting a regular consumer to agree to all the scary warnings presented when you do that.
- withinboredom 2y agoI didn't even read the warnings to install fortnite, but it seemed Apple tried to make it as confusing as possible. Click install, go to settings, white list the provider, go back to the browser, click back to try installing again ... and then finally, click "yes I am sure" then click "yes I am sure" like 3 more times. So complicated.
- grishka 2y agoOn Android, there isn't really a scary warning. You have to allow whatever app you're installing the apk from to install apps form "unknown sources". That's it. You only have to do it once per source. On iOS, I'm sure the EU regulators will demand that Apple at least tone down their warnings.
- Slawa79 2y agoPersonally, I'm not surprised that Google did this, they remove a lot of applications from the play store. The creatures, what to take from them!
- neilv 2y agoOrganic Maps is nice. On my phone (GrapheneOS Android), I use Organic Maps exclusively now, and haven't yet seen a need to install or use Google Maps on the phone. (I still use the Google Maps Web site on my laptop, though, and like StreetView, satellite, and the texture-mapped aerial 3D imagery there.)
- maipen 2y agoI think having gmaps is must. Even if you don’t open it, you should have it in case everything goes wrong. I like waze, but sometimes it just fails to find me a certain place.
- Freak_NL 2y agoThat's heavily location and use dependant. Why would Google Maps be better than OpenStreetMap locally downloaded for off-line use into OsmAnd or OrganicMaps? In much of Europe Google Maps can't even compete with OpenStreetMap data as soon as you get to trails, paths, and minor local roads. Besides, if you have a wireless signal, you can always just of the browser with Google Maps. A real backup means having a paper map when hiking, and just following the local road signs when driving. When things really go wrong, Google Maps is just about the last thing to use.
- palata 2y ago> I like waze, but sometimes it just fails to find me a certain place. Doesn't Waze belong to Google?
- npteljes 2y agoI too like to have backups, I use OsmAnd in case Organic Maps goes wrong on me. But Google Maps also has its use for me, businesses around me are best represented on that, especially opening hours.
- hedora 2y agoOn iOS, I never use gmaps. Even if I tap a link accidentally and it opens their website, the address is broken half the time. Instead, I screen shot the address and paste it into another mapping app. However, on android, if the google location services (the spyware half of gmaps) is not installed, then third party apps like uber and lyft, and real world infrastructure access, like ev charging and paying parking meters break.
- dddw 2y agoJust use fdroid. It's a nice app, great for hiking. Last time I used it (2 years ago), it seemed to be quite a battery drain, not sure they fixed it in the meantime.
- endisneigh 2y agoYou can still download via APK hosted on their website, no (like the FTA says, and provides a link)? Isn’t that want folks want - to not have to go through the gatekeeper, aka Play Store?
- Zambyte 2y agoPersonally I don't care if Google removes any apps from their repo; I get all of the apps I actually care about through other means anyways. The thing that makes this particular case feel weird to me is that the organization playing gatekeeper is also competing directly with this app.
- quitit 2y agoSeems like the solution is to make that approval process independent. (As for who would pay for that, who can say, should it be government run?, should it have application fees? etc) While I sympathise with developers who are the victim of mistakes, we have no transparency to know who is actually in the wrong. There is also constant subjective criticism about what is too little or too much protective oversight. Fortnite was approved by both Apple and Google despite the FTC fining Epic for intentionally tricking children into making unwanted purchases, (Epic would also kill the account if the parent did charge backs), other scam apps have snuck onto the various stores over the years, and it wasn't too long ago that both Facebook and Google used side-loading to distribute data collection apps that wouldn't pass official channels.
- Zambyte 2y ago> As for who would pay for that, who can say, should it be government run? Distribute the cost by distributing sources. The GNU/Linux ecosystem has been operating just fine on this model for decades.
- quitit 2y agoThe app is already available outside of Google's store. Those who wish to self-moderate their software downloads can already obtain the software. (Let the men eat meat! tick ) This scenario is for a curated marketplace which needs to demonstrate that they are not acting improperly towards those with which they could have a potential conflict of interest. There is no opportunity to debate whether such marketplaces have a software discovery and security benefit, that is already established. Implying to dissolve the marketplace is unserious and not an answer to the problem, and not helpful to the ideals of computing for the masses.
- biodranik 2y agoAs a temporary workaround for the Google Play issue, you can install the new upcoming Google Play update from this link: https://cdn.organicmaps.app/apk/OrganicMaps-24081605-GooglePlay.apk https://cdn.organicmaps.app/apk/OrganicMaps-24081605-GoogleP...
- parkerside 2y agoJust to clarify, is this Google Play update "upcoming" in that it is currently going through Google's policy review process in order to reinstate your app on Google Play? If so, what changes were made in this release to satisfy their policies? I'm interested to see what technical hoops you're jumping through to get your app reinstated, if you don't mind sharing. As a developer myself I've had my "fun" with policy compliance and review processes. All the best either way, hope it gets reinstated soon!
- RicoElectrico 2y agoThere was a new release due on Google Play and App Store, I am not certainly sure but the removal was unrelated.
- reify 2y agoI use organic maps. great app! I use it on E/os and lineage phones. My friends have it on their googled phones, not from the play store. I get them to install Droid-ify and install it from there. Then I adb remove google maps completely for them.
- romwell 2y agoThe killer feature of Organic Maps is that you can download the maps for the entire world (yay OSM!) and not have to depend on signal or having a data plan. Super important for intentional travel or nature (National parks often have no signal). It's blazing fast — far snappier than other map apps I've used. And OSM data is better than Google's for hiking and biking. The POI database isn't as detailed, and you wouldn't use it to find an espresso shop near you (...yet). But it's much better as a map app.
- AlexTrask 2y agoI encourage everyone to improve OSM and add the not found POIs not only to appear on Organic Maps , to make everyone to have a open database of geolocated information
- sebastiennight 2y agoHow would you do that from an Android phone? I've found myself wanting to update OSM/Organic Maps info many times.
- Viliam1234 2y agoI haven't tried it myself, but I think https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/StreetComplete
- tlocke 2y agoThe Android app StreetComplete is an excellent start for updating OSM I found. There soon become occasions when you have to bring out the big guns and edit it using the web editor at https://www.openstreetmap.org/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/ , which is possible to do on a mobile phone if it has a big enough screen, but much easier on a laptop.
- mpawelski 2y agoFrom my experience the best one currently is EveryDoor. But even if you just use Organic Maps, it has some basis functionality to add and edit places. StreetComplete is also great and very beginner friendly, but it is mostly for completing missing information for existing places. However, I think quite recent addition was that now you can actually add new places. Haven't used it much though.
- RobotToaster 2y agoFor companies like google, I feel like the opposite of Hanlon's razor applies, which makes: Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice.
- caseyy 2y agoIt may be incompetence. Most of big tech today no longer understands why someone would build an app, a business, or a project for reasons other than seeking to extract money from the market. It is ironic, because most of the big tech companies are only as successful because they initially offered products with vision and purpose, rather than as means simply to extract revenue at the lowest cost. They are not entirely wrong to view the market this way. Most apps and projects are built these days primarily as means to extract revenue from the market at a low cost. Sometimes they are so much this that we call them grifts, and there have been many in tech recently, and certainly on the Play Store. But there are still some companies with better values. This is a long way to say that unless an app/project/business/website is evidently monetized, it can probably be assumed it's monetized by selling data or ads. Likely, this assumption was made by the reviewer here, there may even be guidelines about it. To some degree, it would even benefit consumers to do such a reality check too before they buy products and subscribe to services — is this a visionary purpose-driven product, or one that seeks to extract money from me as its primary goal? If latter, how do they do it — in evident ways, or through selling data or ads/influencing? But one must be able to see nuance that not everything in the world is built for the capitalistic objective. Sometimes, cool things are built, art is made, and inventions are made to better the world. Overall, it is a problem that they don't see this nuance which made Google successful in the first place. It is clear across their business, products and services. But I think it is not unexpected. An app shot down because it doesn't grift in an evident way, under an assumption it grifts in a hidden way — it's not the most wrong decision in the world. It just does not demonstrate competence either.
- fmajid 2y agoRegarding Maps, Google long ago forfeited the benefit of doubt: https://www.slashgear.com/google-blames-rogue-contractors-for-openstreetmap-sabotage-18209666/ https://www.slashgear.com/google-blames-rogue-contractors-fo...
- slashtab 2y agoIt could the part of their effort on purging of low quality apps[1], announced last month. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41018292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41018292
- butz 2y agoGoogle keeps removing "unused" developer accounts and "low quality" apps, but if I want to remove my apps from Play Store and close developer account, but it is impossible to remove apps when developer actually wants to do it, only "hide" them. And there's no button to delete developer account either. Double standards.
- clumsysmurf 2y agoYep, and to make things worse, even if your account is empty, if you had a (unpublished) paid app, you still have to go through the account verification stuff and provide your drivers license, etc to Google. If you don't want to have your public information posted, your options are to create a business account.
- hedora 2y agoI’d be curious to see how that holds up in Europe or California. At least one person must have sent them a “do not sell my personal information” or “right to be forgotten” request, and then declined to accept the new terms.
- methuselah_in 2y ago@google is now stared behaving like scared.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dcreater 2y agoThey are doing this AFTER the monopoly suit?? Google is done. They'll be a shell of themselves in 5-10 years
- qiine 2y agoWhy can't we have nice things
- poikroequ 2y agoLine must go up
- hasanJM 2y agoorganic maps is the best app of Navigation ever
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sebtron 2y agoInstall it from F-Droid and live free of this monopolistic bullshit https://f-droid.org https://f-droid.org
- soundworlds 2y agoSecond this. F-droid opens all the doors, is pro open-source, and use AppManager through F-droid to remove Google's bloatware!
- NelsonMinar 2y agoI am grateful for F-Droid but the usability is not great compared to the built-in Play Store.
- timbit42 2y agoHave you tried Neo Store? It also pulls from F-Droid.
- nikitagis 2y agoOrganic Maps is an excellent mapping application. Blocking it is an error.
- jmakov 2y agoFdroid and be done with it?
- c82jjul 2y ago[flagged]
- c82jjul 2y ago[flagged]
- kjrfghslkdjfl 2y ago[dead]
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- KTibow 2y agoSeems nobody else here was speculating on a rules-based cause, so I might as well. Policy 1 [0] seems the most likely cause to me. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some vandalism on OSM that had some "inappropriate" content or similar. 0: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/9893335 https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...
- RicoElectrico 2y agoWell I don't think an automated check would have downloaded maps. Also, Google Maps is being vandalized as well: https://natemat.pl/250163,jak-zmienic-nazwe-w-mapach-google-internauci-trolluja-szkoly-i-szpitale https://natemat.pl/250163,jak-zmienic-nazwe-w-mapach-google-...
- timbit42 2y agoNext they'll be removing Firefox because you can access adult websites with it.
- asadotzler 2y agoNot a chance. The app checks don't see what users see. They're not gonna have automation that loads in every map tile to scan it for CSAM or whatever.
- ziofill 2y agoAre these removals handled by a human or automated?
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y agoGoogle play store used to say that OM had over 1 million installs. It seems unlikely that popular applications can be pulled by fully automated processes without a human in the loop. Especially for something as nebulous as “Families Program” rules.
- RicoElectrico 2y agoGoogle who is allergic to have any humans in the loop: hold my beer
- johnea 2y ago+1 for sideloading as a primary app installation process...
- big-green-man 2y agoDidn't google just lose a lawsuit for doing stuff like this?
- amatecha 2y agoOrganic Maps is awesome. Just used it to get through the Tour du Mont Blanc (170km/105mi hike around the Mont Blanc massif). The app is not perfect, but it's constantly improving thanks to its community of devs. Def try it out!
- clemiclemen 2y agoThe application seems to be back in the Play Store. It is a shame that Google can pull these kinds of behaviour without any repercussion...