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All I wanted to see was a single screenshot or video. Ars used to be such a wonderful site. Anyway: https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g

by nailer 2y ago

grezql 2y ago
[dead]
nottorp 2y ago
But... what does it matter how it looks? This being Epic and made because of a free to play game, I'm more interested in an analysis of how predatory it is. It's not like Epic is better than Apple at their core.
flohofwoe 2y ago
Bizarre how the scare popup doesn't have a button to immediately go to the right place in Settings (or even just enable the feature right there). Typical Apple though. It's the same mess on macOS to allow running software installed from the web.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  Eeehh, conveniently, this is consistent with their other “scare popups” that don’t directly harm their business model like installing provisioning profiles. They’re installed via Safari, where a pop up tells you the instructions to go to in Settings, rather than a button to take you there.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Even apps requesting notification changes require users to click through manually.
  - popcalc 2y ago
    >Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Wrong. Dating apps can and do deeplink to their geolocation permissions settings.
    - threeseed 2y ago
      Which dating app. Never seen any app able to deep link beyond the first level in Settings.
      - kalleboo 2y ago
        https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplication/1623042-opensettingsurlstring/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplicatio... This brings the app to your apps settings page which includes the permissions toggles. We use it in our camera app when the user has denied camera permissions (kind of vital) and need help turning it back on, it brings them right to the correct toggle
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  On the one hand I agree that it's a bit silly that the messaging isn't clear. On the other hand, from my experience with Android installation, providing easy steps for end users who don't know what they're agreeing with leads to lots of malware and other nasty stuff. Android has recently started blocking users from granting some sensitive permissions to apps from settings dialogues spawned by the app itself for this reason. You need to manually open the settings to grant the most sensitive permissions. This has the benefit of requiring the user to know what power they're granting these apps, but the process is a lot less straight-forward than this was on iOS.
  - epolanski 2y ago
    I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Let alone you need to manually give permissions to everything.
    - miki123211 2y ago
      > I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Unfortunately, it's somewhat common among the less tech-savvy. In countries where Android is more popular, a lot of scam callers call to tell you that your phone has a virus and to install their "special app", of course the special app needs to check that there's no virus hiding in the camera so it needs camera permissions, of course it's safe if it has made-by-the-police in the name. People who don't know how tech works absolutely fall for this.
    - wappieslurkz 2y ago
      How do you know you've never had any malware? Isn't most malware designed to be as stealth as possible?
  - xg15 2y ago
    Yeah, genuine security concerns are one thing, blocking competition or things that threaten your business model is another.
  - illiac786 2y ago
    The problem here (in the malware case) is that the user is not reading or understanding the warnings. Making it harder for the user to do what he wants is not the right solution, apple should focus on making sure the user knows what he wants: the warning should be clearer or more explicit. Otherwise apple is penalising everyone that knows what they’re doing, it makes gamers angry, it’s just a bad look.
- xg15 2y ago
  Yeah, even more so when you then open the Settings app and it immediately greets you with a bespoke "install Epic Store" button. So there is an actual install flow going on in the background, in which Safari communicates with Settings, it's just specifically designed so you have to look up and open the Settings app yourself, instead of just opening it for you. Reminds me of the ridiculous hoops Google built into Chrome to discourage you from sideloading extensions - having you activate "dev mode" before, sure, but then also making dragging and dropping the extension file onto the Chrome window the only way to actually install it.
Etheryte 2y ago
What a wonderful example of malicious compliance. Honestly wish this got the treatment that third party app stores should be just as straightforward to get and use as the native one. Clearly Apple won't do this unless legally enforced.
NekkoDroid 2y ago
> Ars used to be such a wonderful site. One of the first times I visited it I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. I don't know if it was actually Ars that munched on my data or if it was something in the background suddenly doing that, but it didn't happen before. Ever since then my taste of the website has been a bit soured.
- cesarb 2y ago
  > I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. That's the reason I configured uBlock Origin on my phone browser to disable both images and JavaScript. Text-only pages have a much lower chance of eating all the data, and if I really need JavaScript or images for a site, I can easily tell uBlock Origin to temporarily unblock them for that site.
- mysterydip 2y ago
  Enabling "automatically use reader mode on all websites" has cut down on the amount of noise I see on many websites. It's made a few sites usable on mobile again for me. I don't have hard data but I assume the amount of downloading is reduced as well since the page rarely renders an ad but usually keeps the actual pictures you want to see.
  - unnervingduck 2y ago
    How can you do that? I've wanted to enable reader mode by default on Firefox but AFAIK it's not possible yet, so I just forget it's existence.
    - mysterydip 2y ago
      For safari on iOS at least: - settings - safari - scroll down to reader, tap, then enable the slider

All I wanted to see was a single screenshot or video. Ars used to be such a wonderful site. Anyway: https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g

by nailer 2y ago

All I wanted to see was a single screenshot or video. Ars used to be such a wonderful site. Anyway: https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g

grezql 2y ago

[dead]

nottorp 2y ago

But... what does it matter how it looks? This being Epic and made because of a free to play game, I'm more interested in an analysis of how predatory it is. It's not like Epic is better than Apple at their core.

flohofwoe 2y ago

Bizarre how the scare popup doesn't have a button to immediately go to the right place in Settings (or even just enable the feature right there). Typical Apple though. It's the same mess on macOS to allow running software installed from the web.

madeofpalk 2y ago
Eeehh, conveniently, this is consistent with their other “scare popups” that don’t directly harm their business model like installing provisioning profiles. They’re installed via Safari, where a pop up tells you the instructions to go to in Settings, rather than a button to take you there.
threeseed 2y ago
Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Even apps requesting notification changes require users to click through manually.
- popcalc 2y ago
  >Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Wrong. Dating apps can and do deeplink to their geolocation permissions settings.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Which dating app. Never seen any app able to deep link beyond the first level in Settings.
    - kalleboo 2y ago
      https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplication/1623042-opensettingsurlstring/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplicatio... This brings the app to your apps settings page which includes the permissions toggles. We use it in our camera app when the user has denied camera permissions (kind of vital) and need help turning it back on, it brings them right to the correct toggle
jeroenhd 2y ago
On the one hand I agree that it's a bit silly that the messaging isn't clear. On the other hand, from my experience with Android installation, providing easy steps for end users who don't know what they're agreeing with leads to lots of malware and other nasty stuff. Android has recently started blocking users from granting some sensitive permissions to apps from settings dialogues spawned by the app itself for this reason. You need to manually open the settings to grant the most sensitive permissions. This has the benefit of requiring the user to know what power they're granting these apps, but the process is a lot less straight-forward than this was on iOS.
- epolanski 2y ago
  I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Let alone you need to manually give permissions to everything.
  - miki123211 2y ago
    > I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Unfortunately, it's somewhat common among the less tech-savvy. In countries where Android is more popular, a lot of scam callers call to tell you that your phone has a virus and to install their "special app", of course the special app needs to check that there's no virus hiding in the camera so it needs camera permissions, of course it's safe if it has made-by-the-police in the name. People who don't know how tech works absolutely fall for this.
  - wappieslurkz 2y ago
    How do you know you've never had any malware? Isn't most malware designed to be as stealth as possible?
- xg15 2y ago
  Yeah, genuine security concerns are one thing, blocking competition or things that threaten your business model is another.
- illiac786 2y ago
  The problem here (in the malware case) is that the user is not reading or understanding the warnings. Making it harder for the user to do what he wants is not the right solution, apple should focus on making sure the user knows what he wants: the warning should be clearer or more explicit. Otherwise apple is penalising everyone that knows what they’re doing, it makes gamers angry, it’s just a bad look.
xg15 2y ago
Yeah, even more so when you then open the Settings app and it immediately greets you with a bespoke "install Epic Store" button. So there is an actual install flow going on in the background, in which Safari communicates with Settings, it's just specifically designed so you have to look up and open the Settings app yourself, instead of just opening it for you. Reminds me of the ridiculous hoops Google built into Chrome to discourage you from sideloading extensions - having you activate "dev mode" before, sure, but then also making dragging and dropping the extension file onto the Chrome window the only way to actually install it.

Etheryte 2y ago

What a wonderful example of malicious compliance. Honestly wish this got the treatment that third party app stores should be just as straightforward to get and use as the native one. Clearly Apple won't do this unless legally enforced.

NekkoDroid 2y ago

> Ars used to be such a wonderful site. One of the first times I visited it I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. I don't know if it was actually Ars that munched on my data or if it was something in the background suddenly doing that, but it didn't happen before. Ever since then my taste of the website has been a bit soured.

cesarb 2y ago
> I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. That's the reason I configured uBlock Origin on my phone browser to disable both images and JavaScript. Text-only pages have a much lower chance of eating all the data, and if I really need JavaScript or images for a site, I can easily tell uBlock Origin to temporarily unblock them for that site.
mysterydip 2y ago
Enabling "automatically use reader mode on all websites" has cut down on the amount of noise I see on many websites. It's made a few sites usable on mobile again for me. I don't have hard data but I assume the amount of downloading is reduced as well since the page rarely renders an ad but usually keeps the actual pictures you want to see.
- unnervingduck 2y ago
  How can you do that? I've wanted to enable reader mode by default on Firefox but AFAIK it's not possible yet, so I just forget it's existence.
  - mysterydip 2y ago
    For safari on iOS at least: - settings - safari - scroll down to reader, tap, then enable the slider