6 ms·

Epic Games Store and Fortnite Arrive on EU iPhones

181 points by mpweiher 2y ago

nailer 2y ago
All I wanted to see was a single screenshot or video. Ars used to be such a wonderful site. Anyway: https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g
- grezql 2y ago
  [dead]
- nottorp 2y ago
  But... what does it matter how it looks? This being Epic and made because of a free to play game, I'm more interested in an analysis of how predatory it is. It's not like Epic is better than Apple at their core.
- flohofwoe 2y ago
  Bizarre how the scare popup doesn't have a button to immediately go to the right place in Settings (or even just enable the feature right there). Typical Apple though. It's the same mess on macOS to allow running software installed from the web.
  - madeofpalk 2y ago
    Eeehh, conveniently, this is consistent with their other “scare popups” that don’t directly harm their business model like installing provisioning profiles. They’re installed via Safari, where a pop up tells you the instructions to go to in Settings, rather than a button to take you there.
  - threeseed 2y ago
    Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Even apps requesting notification changes require users to click through manually.
    - popcalc 2y ago
      >Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Wrong. Dating apps can and do deeplink to their geolocation permissions settings.
      - threeseed 2y ago
        Which dating app. Never seen any app able to deep link beyond the first level in Settings.
        kalleboo 2y ago
        https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplication/1623042-opensettingsurlstring/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplicatio... This brings the app to your apps settings page which includes the permissions toggles. We use it in our camera app when the user has denied camera permissions (kind of vital) and need help turning it back on, it brings them right to the correct toggle
  - jeroenhd 2y ago
    On the one hand I agree that it's a bit silly that the messaging isn't clear. On the other hand, from my experience with Android installation, providing easy steps for end users who don't know what they're agreeing with leads to lots of malware and other nasty stuff. Android has recently started blocking users from granting some sensitive permissions to apps from settings dialogues spawned by the app itself for this reason. You need to manually open the settings to grant the most sensitive permissions. This has the benefit of requiring the user to know what power they're granting these apps, but the process is a lot less straight-forward than this was on iOS.
    - epolanski 2y ago
      I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Let alone you need to manually give permissions to everything.
      - miki123211 2y ago
        > I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Unfortunately, it's somewhat common among the less tech-savvy. In countries where Android is more popular, a lot of scam callers call to tell you that your phone has a virus and to install their "special app", of course the special app needs to check that there's no virus hiding in the camera so it needs camera permissions, of course it's safe if it has made-by-the-police in the name. People who don't know how tech works absolutely fall for this.
      - wappieslurkz 2y ago
        How do you know you've never had any malware? Isn't most malware designed to be as stealth as possible?
    - xg15 2y ago
      Yeah, genuine security concerns are one thing, blocking competition or things that threaten your business model is another.
    - illiac786 2y ago
      The problem here (in the malware case) is that the user is not reading or understanding the warnings. Making it harder for the user to do what he wants is not the right solution, apple should focus on making sure the user knows what he wants: the warning should be clearer or more explicit. Otherwise apple is penalising everyone that knows what they’re doing, it makes gamers angry, it’s just a bad look.
  - xg15 2y ago
    Yeah, even more so when you then open the Settings app and it immediately greets you with a bespoke "install Epic Store" button. So there is an actual install flow going on in the background, in which Safari communicates with Settings, it's just specifically designed so you have to look up and open the Settings app yourself, instead of just opening it for you. Reminds me of the ridiculous hoops Google built into Chrome to discourage you from sideloading extensions - having you activate "dev mode" before, sure, but then also making dragging and dropping the extension file onto the Chrome window the only way to actually install it.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  What a wonderful example of malicious compliance. Honestly wish this got the treatment that third party app stores should be just as straightforward to get and use as the native one. Clearly Apple won't do this unless legally enforced.
- NekkoDroid 2y ago
  > Ars used to be such a wonderful site. One of the first times I visited it I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. I don't know if it was actually Ars that munched on my data or if it was something in the background suddenly doing that, but it didn't happen before. Ever since then my taste of the website has been a bit soured.
  - cesarb 2y ago
    > I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. That's the reason I configured uBlock Origin on my phone browser to disable both images and JavaScript. Text-only pages have a much lower chance of eating all the data, and if I really need JavaScript or images for a site, I can easily tell uBlock Origin to temporarily unblock them for that site.
  - mysterydip 2y ago
    Enabling "automatically use reader mode on all websites" has cut down on the amount of noise I see on many websites. It's made a few sites usable on mobile again for me. I don't have hard data but I assume the amount of downloading is reduced as well since the page rarely renders an ad but usually keeps the actual pictures you want to see.
    - unnervingduck 2y ago
      How can you do that? I've wanted to enable reader mode by default on Firefox but AFAIK it's not possible yet, so I just forget it's existence.
      - mysterydip 2y ago
        For safari on iOS at least: - settings - safari - scroll down to reader, tap, then enable the slider
jaimehrubiks 2y ago
Does anyone know if games will come back to MacOs?
- nottorp 2y ago
  No, don't think so. Apple's current initiative shows they still don't understand gaming.
  - gary_0 2y ago
    There are more Steam gamers on Linux than there are on MacOS (2.08% Linux vs. 1.37% Mac)[0]. Gaming is pretty dead on Macs. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
    - nottorp 2y ago
      The question wasn't "is it dead" but "will it recover"? And sadly I think not. I'm certainly not going to buy ports of years old games on the app store where they're expensive and mac exclusive when i can get them multiplatform and for much less on Steam - if I haven't already finished them years ago. <cough> Death Stranding lol. I preordered that on launch. And I use one x86 box, one PS5 and two Macs. I'm just not uninformed enough to overpay Cook for games. Does that 2.08% Linux include the Deck btw? I couldn't figure it out by expanding.
      - gary_0 2y ago
        I just found it surprising how dead it is (according to Steam, anyways). Apple will have to do something drastic (and uncharacteristic) to recover. > Does that 2.08% Linux include the Deck btw? [edit] I think I was wrong, see sibling comment which indicates that 41% of Linux users are on the Deck's OS.
        nottorp 2y ago
        I wonder if I'm counted once, thrice or four times. I've ran Steam at least once on both windows and linux on the x86 box and on both macs... Edit to answer the reply below this one: I have no idea how many times I got the hardware survey popup, but I always click Yes on it. It's possible I wasn't counted for Linux because I don't really use that install. The x86 box is headless and I steam stream games off it to the macs that have monitors. That doesn't seem to work from Linux.
withinboredom 2y ago
Literally just downloaded it. Even if it contains spyware, the freedom to choose to install spyware deliberately is refreshing.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- regnerba 2y ago
  Serious question: if it’s so important to you why use an iPhone? Not trying to be sarcastic or negative, really just curious.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Because the only competition is Android. Apple is the least bad choice if we're talking quality of the user experience. Don't bother comparing specs on paper, use both. And that's even before we take into account that Android is run by an advertising company. Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed and they ended up getting EU users a bit more freedom to decide what's run on the hardware they paid for...
    - fsflover 2y ago
      > Because the only competition is Android. It's not. Sent from my Librem 5.
      - npteljes 2y ago
        This isn't a good faith argument. When considering competition for X, the alternative should do at least most of the things that X does. It's not realistic to expect a drop-in alternative, but the user, I think, can't be expected to turn their life around, just to use the alternative, either. If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone. If the offerings differ too much, then they are not competition. They are different products.
KolmogorovComp 2y ago
What data does the epic game store has access to if you install it? Does it show clearly which data each app collects?
- pavlov 2y ago
  They’re still iOS apps executed in the same sandbox and notarized by Apple. It’s not like they can suddenly read more data from your device just because you downloaded the binary from Epic’s S3 bucket instead of Apple’s S3 bucket. Of course Apple would like you to have a vague feeling of fear, uncertainty and doubt about third party distribution. The truth is that the only extra layer of defense provided by Apple’s App Store is an arbitrary review process that is always overwhelmed and easily gamed.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    The ease with which Apple's rules may be circumvented is situation-specific, e.g. Facebook ran an ad campaign to protest against Apple enforcing privacy rules which (to my not legally trained eye) seem to have already been a legal requirement for app developers in several jurisdictions before Apple made it also a contractual obligation: https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2021/03/29/the-privacy-war-apple-vs-facebook/ https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2021/03/29/the-privacy-war... So, for Meta, in this specific case, the law was easier to ignore than the developer agreement.
    - Razengan 2y ago
      Facebook also uses the iOS Keychain to track you across app installs and deletions, AND even when restoring iCloud backups on a new phone! There's no way to see or delete that data without using Facebook apps, and no way to be sure that the data they show is all the data they've stored on your phone.
      - SSLy 2y ago
        If I have a meta app, where can I see this stuff?
pashadee 2y ago
iOS 17.6.1 - can't install via safari. Message: To install the Epic Games Store on your iPhone, update to iOS 17.6 or later.
- bornfreddy 2y ago
  I believe the technical term for this is "Oops.".
  - Y_Y 2y ago
    "Oops, an inadvertent unavoidable accident meant we broke the functionality we didn't want but were forced to add!"
    - nolok 2y ago
      While some people are talking about whether this is a good or bad regulation, the reality is we've moved to another game entirely : whether or not Apple has to follow the law. No matter what you think about the regulation, it's obvious Apple cannot in any way be allowed to win that one now. At least in the common charger case it was an industry agreement not a law and they did it when the regulation came, this time it's much more serious.
      - pas 2y ago
        meh. if it's about shipping broken e2e or reporting vulnerable minorities or the usual, then they would be obliged to break it and/or exit the given market. yes, I (also) think the EU pro-consumer regulations are good and Apple ought to adhere to them simply because it's the virtuous behavior, but ... they have show time after time that they prefer (virtually amoral) profit maximization.
    - fhaldridge7 2y ago
      The problem here is with the Epic Store website and not with Apple
SSLy 2y ago
NB: if you already have AltStore PAL, you can just install Epic apps from their storefront. Epic covers FUD fees that Apple levies from AltStore.
- kameit00 2y ago
  Another bonus if you use AltStore - you don't have to install an app from a company that defrauds children with in-app coin purchases to unlock stuff in their games... it's funny how Epic is now portrayed as 'the good guys'.
  - stavros 2y ago
    Someone can do something good without being "a good guy". Morality isn't black and white.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    Apple makes significantly more money on the sale of gambling to children that epic does
    - TheDong 2y ago
      Apple doesn't itself make those games, it simply offers a marketplace and takes an obscene 30% cut of all the horribly addictive games. The companies that make those games, like Epic and miHoYo are far more directly culpable. Really, I blame the governments for not banning this obviously deleterious crap, like the US is seriously debating banning tik-tok when gacha games are right there.
      - jncfhnb 2y ago
        Epic hasn’t made gambling games for years fwiw. Although they do serve them on their app store. Imo Apple would have banned these games a long time ago if it were not for the fact that it granted them hundreds of millions of dollars. The incentives are bad. Everything always boils down to the terrible incentives of app makers paying a tax share of revenue or profit rather than just paying a fixed fee for the distribution service.
enricotal 2y ago
"Allow Markeplace from Epic Games" Wow.... This is a small step in installing an app, but a giant leap for digital freedom. I hope that non-UE citizens can achieve this goal by the end of the decade, not because it is easy, but because it is hard.
- dotancohen 2y ago
  > not because it is easy, but because it is hard. Terrific reuse! Thank you.
- nottorp 2y ago
  How's the EU only iOS? I stopped updating at 17.3.1 because I had a feeling it will be buggy in the beginning. Is it safe to use it now?
  - jeroenhd 2y ago
    I've installed every update and I've never had an issue. I don't use iOS much, but I don't think I've ever seen a bug. I have seen some weird behaviour, but that could just be me mostly using Android and not knowing how iOS does things.
  - thejsa 2y ago
    It’s the same bits, just with feature flags for things like eligibility to install third party stores.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      Well if you look at the uBlock Origin comment thread that I started on this article, someone told me you can have that on iOS in theory. Turns out they were just assuming as well. That's why i ask for first hand experience.
- jajko 2y ago
  Its hard only because greedy corporation execs decided to milk its userbase dry, while giving them massive FU in the face coupled with a tasty spit. Technically, they already done it without breaking a sweat. But amount of pass apple gets from mostly US folks even here on HN and elsewhere, despite all their intentional missteps and fuckups is staggering. Main reason for me to stay away from whole ecosystem, price wise they are just in upper middle tier, functionality wise it depends what you need/expect - from great to pretty much horrible proposition. If google would be chinese corp I would get it when crowds get into us-vs-them mindset, but this fanatism has no base in reality, its more like blind political support of candidate X despite massive character flaws, just because you already invested yourself heavily in given party direction for topic Y. They will keep doing it exactly and only to the point when users will start voting with their wallets, hoping for some apple moral auto-correction is a pipe dream with some serious stuff in that pipe. Or leave it up to regulators with some morals, but I struggle to imagine this working anywhere else outside of EU, and I am not positive about the future change (hoping to be wrong of course). Until apple does something both nasty and visible, they will continue to be uncritically celebrated.
nottorp 2y ago
Let's remember the other fact hidden behind this store of a free to play peddler: Due to governmental pressure, we have a chance to get a browser that can run uBlock Origin on iOS in the future...
- viherjuuri 2y ago
  I haven’t looked into the issue at all, so can you tell me what is wrong with the current content-blocking features in mobile safari that prevent ublock origin from working? AdGuard works fine, but that in itself doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
- caslon 2y ago
  uBO already runs on iOS. Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. They also don't care about you having extensions on Android; their most recent redesign left Android Firefox users without extensions for months. Mozilla is an ad-supported company from every angle: Pocket, search deal, the ads built into Firefox. Why don't they get more of the blame for the current state of the browser ecosystem?
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. What's Orion, and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? > The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. Agree with Mozilla's decay, but there's also a Chrome for iOS and that doesn't have uBlock Origin either, does it?
    - caslon 2y ago
      Chrome on Android doesn't support browser extensions. Google is an advertising company. They are not incentivized to allow extensions. Extensions block their ads, and are a risk vector for mobile users, who are often young, inexperienced, and running outdated systems software. > What's Orion A web browser, using the same Webkit as everybody else on iOS, with support for browser extensions. People give Apple too much flak for the mismanagement or warped incentives of browser vendors. Lack of extensions in existing browsers isn't their fault to any degree. > and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? There's not a separate spec for "mobile" Firefox extensions and desktop browser extensions. Google WebExtensions. It's an open standard that desktop Firefox follows and that Chrome almost does.
methou 2y ago
Meanwhile Japan also has similar laws passed recently, but apple did not bend
- pas 2y ago
  how doestm the enforcement story look in Japan? how big market it is for Apple, how's their historical compliance posture, etc?
andrei_says_ 2y ago
If an EU citizen lives in the U.S., is this an option? How does one install it? What if I travel to the EU? Can I install it while there?
- kyriakos 2y ago
  Without being specific to this law when you visit a country you follow the laws of that country and hit your home country's. In this case it would mean that apple is not obligated to offer you access to alternative stores while visiting US.
- Etheryte 2y ago
  Last I checked, all app store regional limitations etc were tied to your billing address. Similarly, you only see apps that are only available in your region based on your billing address.
- miki123211 2y ago
  Explaining in detail, since there's a lot of misinfo in this subthread. The new georestricted iOS features, like 3rd-party App Stores, are behind feature flags that only activate in certain regions. There are multiple factors taken into account when determining whether a flag should be activated. They include GPS location, location obtained from nearby cell towers, the issuing country of your SIM card, the region you set in settings, the country that nearby WiFi networks broadcast for regulatory purposes[1], and (indirectly, through the billing address) the issuing country of the credit or debit card that you use in the App Store. Not all of them have to match, but the threshold is high enough that you're very unlikely to meet it while physically in the US. Feature flags stay activated for 30 days since last eligibility, so if you're an EU resident and leave for a vacation, you're fine. If you traveled here as an US resident, you (probably) could get these features activated, perhaps needing an european Apple ID and/or SIM, but they would only stay on for 30 days.
  - andrei_says_ 2y ago
    Thank you. This sounds quite complicated and I understand why. It’s impressive how much work Apple is willing to deal with in order to protect their turf outside of the EU.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41265892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41265892

181 points by mpweiher 2y ago

All I wanted to see was a single screenshot or video. Ars used to be such a wonderful site. Anyway: https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g https://youtu.be/_6cmu0NuM3g

grezql 2y ago
[dead]
nottorp 2y ago
But... what does it matter how it looks? This being Epic and made because of a free to play game, I'm more interested in an analysis of how predatory it is. It's not like Epic is better than Apple at their core.
flohofwoe 2y ago
Bizarre how the scare popup doesn't have a button to immediately go to the right place in Settings (or even just enable the feature right there). Typical Apple though. It's the same mess on macOS to allow running software installed from the web.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  Eeehh, conveniently, this is consistent with their other “scare popups” that don’t directly harm their business model like installing provisioning profiles. They’re installed via Safari, where a pop up tells you the instructions to go to in Settings, rather than a button to take you there.
- threeseed 2y ago
  Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Even apps requesting notification changes require users to click through manually.
  - popcalc 2y ago
    >Apple has never allowed any app to jump to straight into the right Settings page on iOS or macOS. Wrong. Dating apps can and do deeplink to their geolocation permissions settings.
    - threeseed 2y ago
      Which dating app. Never seen any app able to deep link beyond the first level in Settings.
      - kalleboo 2y ago
        https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplication/1623042-opensettingsurlstring/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplicatio... This brings the app to your apps settings page which includes the permissions toggles. We use it in our camera app when the user has denied camera permissions (kind of vital) and need help turning it back on, it brings them right to the correct toggle
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  On the one hand I agree that it's a bit silly that the messaging isn't clear. On the other hand, from my experience with Android installation, providing easy steps for end users who don't know what they're agreeing with leads to lots of malware and other nasty stuff. Android has recently started blocking users from granting some sensitive permissions to apps from settings dialogues spawned by the app itself for this reason. You need to manually open the settings to grant the most sensitive permissions. This has the benefit of requiring the user to know what power they're granting these apps, but the process is a lot less straight-forward than this was on iOS.
  - epolanski 2y ago
    I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Let alone you need to manually give permissions to everything.
    - miki123211 2y ago
      > I've never had a malware on Android like ever. Unfortunately, it's somewhat common among the less tech-savvy. In countries where Android is more popular, a lot of scam callers call to tell you that your phone has a virus and to install their "special app", of course the special app needs to check that there's no virus hiding in the camera so it needs camera permissions, of course it's safe if it has made-by-the-police in the name. People who don't know how tech works absolutely fall for this.
    - wappieslurkz 2y ago
      How do you know you've never had any malware? Isn't most malware designed to be as stealth as possible?
  - xg15 2y ago
    Yeah, genuine security concerns are one thing, blocking competition or things that threaten your business model is another.
  - illiac786 2y ago
    The problem here (in the malware case) is that the user is not reading or understanding the warnings. Making it harder for the user to do what he wants is not the right solution, apple should focus on making sure the user knows what he wants: the warning should be clearer or more explicit. Otherwise apple is penalising everyone that knows what they’re doing, it makes gamers angry, it’s just a bad look.
- xg15 2y ago
  Yeah, even more so when you then open the Settings app and it immediately greets you with a bespoke "install Epic Store" button. So there is an actual install flow going on in the background, in which Safari communicates with Settings, it's just specifically designed so you have to look up and open the Settings app yourself, instead of just opening it for you. Reminds me of the ridiculous hoops Google built into Chrome to discourage you from sideloading extensions - having you activate "dev mode" before, sure, but then also making dragging and dropping the extension file onto the Chrome window the only way to actually install it.
Etheryte 2y ago
What a wonderful example of malicious compliance. Honestly wish this got the treatment that third party app stores should be just as straightforward to get and use as the native one. Clearly Apple won't do this unless legally enforced.
NekkoDroid 2y ago
> Ars used to be such a wonderful site. One of the first times I visited it I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. I don't know if it was actually Ars that munched on my data or if it was something in the background suddenly doing that, but it didn't happen before. Ever since then my taste of the website has been a bit soured.
- cesarb 2y ago
  > I was on mobile data with like 300mb high speed data left. After opening the page and reading the article I got the notification that I have no data left. That's the reason I configured uBlock Origin on my phone browser to disable both images and JavaScript. Text-only pages have a much lower chance of eating all the data, and if I really need JavaScript or images for a site, I can easily tell uBlock Origin to temporarily unblock them for that site.
- mysterydip 2y ago
  Enabling "automatically use reader mode on all websites" has cut down on the amount of noise I see on many websites. It's made a few sites usable on mobile again for me. I don't have hard data but I assume the amount of downloading is reduced as well since the page rarely renders an ad but usually keeps the actual pictures you want to see.
  - unnervingduck 2y ago
    How can you do that? I've wanted to enable reader mode by default on Firefox but AFAIK it's not possible yet, so I just forget it's existence.
    - mysterydip 2y ago
      For safari on iOS at least: - settings - safari - scroll down to reader, tap, then enable the slider

jaimehrubiks 2y ago

Does anyone know if games will come back to MacOs?

nottorp 2y ago
No, don't think so. Apple's current initiative shows they still don't understand gaming.
- gary_0 2y ago
  There are more Steam gamers on Linux than there are on MacOS (2.08% Linux vs. 1.37% Mac)[0]. Gaming is pretty dead on Macs. [0] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam/ https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
  - nottorp 2y ago
    The question wasn't "is it dead" but "will it recover"? And sadly I think not. I'm certainly not going to buy ports of years old games on the app store where they're expensive and mac exclusive when i can get them multiplatform and for much less on Steam - if I haven't already finished them years ago. <cough> Death Stranding lol. I preordered that on launch. And I use one x86 box, one PS5 and two Macs. I'm just not uninformed enough to overpay Cook for games. Does that 2.08% Linux include the Deck btw? I couldn't figure it out by expanding.
    - gary_0 2y ago
      I just found it surprising how dead it is (according to Steam, anyways). Apple will have to do something drastic (and uncharacteristic) to recover. > Does that 2.08% Linux include the Deck btw? [edit] I think I was wrong, see sibling comment which indicates that 41% of Linux users are on the Deck's OS.
      - nottorp 2y ago
        I wonder if I'm counted once, thrice or four times. I've ran Steam at least once on both windows and linux on the x86 box and on both macs... Edit to answer the reply below this one: I have no idea how many times I got the hardware survey popup, but I always click Yes on it. It's possible I wasn't counted for Linux because I don't really use that install. The x86 box is headless and I steam stream games off it to the macs that have monitors. That doesn't seem to work from Linux.

withinboredom 2y ago

Literally just downloaded it. Even if it contains spyware, the freedom to choose to install spyware deliberately is refreshing.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
regnerba 2y ago
Serious question: if it’s so important to you why use an iPhone? Not trying to be sarcastic or negative, really just curious.
- nottorp 2y ago
  Because the only competition is Android. Apple is the least bad choice if we're talking quality of the user experience. Don't bother comparing specs on paper, use both. And that's even before we take into account that Android is run by an advertising company. Can't decide if it's sad or funny that Epic's greed clashed with Apple's greed and they ended up getting EU users a bit more freedom to decide what's run on the hardware they paid for...
  - fsflover 2y ago
    > Because the only competition is Android. It's not. Sent from my Librem 5.
    - npteljes 2y ago
      This isn't a good faith argument. When considering competition for X, the alternative should do at least most of the things that X does. It's not realistic to expect a drop-in alternative, but the user, I think, can't be expected to turn their life around, just to use the alternative, either. If this would be the case, then a SIM-enabled Windows notebook would also be competition for the iPhone. If the offerings differ too much, then they are not competition. They are different products.

KolmogorovComp 2y ago

What data does the epic game store has access to if you install it? Does it show clearly which data each app collects?

pavlov 2y ago
They’re still iOS apps executed in the same sandbox and notarized by Apple. It’s not like they can suddenly read more data from your device just because you downloaded the binary from Epic’s S3 bucket instead of Apple’s S3 bucket. Of course Apple would like you to have a vague feeling of fear, uncertainty and doubt about third party distribution. The truth is that the only extra layer of defense provided by Apple’s App Store is an arbitrary review process that is always overwhelmed and easily gamed.
- ben_w 2y ago
  The ease with which Apple's rules may be circumvented is situation-specific, e.g. Facebook ran an ad campaign to protest against Apple enforcing privacy rules which (to my not legally trained eye) seem to have already been a legal requirement for app developers in several jurisdictions before Apple made it also a contractual obligation: https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2021/03/29/the-privacy-war-apple-vs-facebook/ https://news.law.fordham.edu/jcfl/2021/03/29/the-privacy-war... So, for Meta, in this specific case, the law was easier to ignore than the developer agreement.
  - Razengan 2y ago
    Facebook also uses the iOS Keychain to track you across app installs and deletions, AND even when restoring iCloud backups on a new phone! There's no way to see or delete that data without using Facebook apps, and no way to be sure that the data they show is all the data they've stored on your phone.
    - SSLy 2y ago
      If I have a meta app, where can I see this stuff?

pashadee 2y ago

iOS 17.6.1 - can't install via safari. Message: To install the Epic Games Store on your iPhone, update to iOS 17.6 or later.

bornfreddy 2y ago
I believe the technical term for this is "Oops.".
- Y_Y 2y ago
  "Oops, an inadvertent unavoidable accident meant we broke the functionality we didn't want but were forced to add!"
  - nolok 2y ago
    While some people are talking about whether this is a good or bad regulation, the reality is we've moved to another game entirely : whether or not Apple has to follow the law. No matter what you think about the regulation, it's obvious Apple cannot in any way be allowed to win that one now. At least in the common charger case it was an industry agreement not a law and they did it when the regulation came, this time it's much more serious.
    - pas 2y ago
      meh. if it's about shipping broken e2e or reporting vulnerable minorities or the usual, then they would be obliged to break it and/or exit the given market. yes, I (also) think the EU pro-consumer regulations are good and Apple ought to adhere to them simply because it's the virtuous behavior, but ... they have show time after time that they prefer (virtually amoral) profit maximization.
  - fhaldridge7 2y ago
    The problem here is with the Epic Store website and not with Apple

SSLy 2y ago

NB: if you already have AltStore PAL, you can just install Epic apps from their storefront. Epic covers FUD fees that Apple levies from AltStore.

kameit00 2y ago
Another bonus if you use AltStore - you don't have to install an app from a company that defrauds children with in-app coin purchases to unlock stuff in their games... it's funny how Epic is now portrayed as 'the good guys'.
- stavros 2y ago
  Someone can do something good without being "a good guy". Morality isn't black and white.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  Apple makes significantly more money on the sale of gambling to children that epic does
  - TheDong 2y ago
    Apple doesn't itself make those games, it simply offers a marketplace and takes an obscene 30% cut of all the horribly addictive games. The companies that make those games, like Epic and miHoYo are far more directly culpable. Really, I blame the governments for not banning this obviously deleterious crap, like the US is seriously debating banning tik-tok when gacha games are right there.
    - jncfhnb 2y ago
      Epic hasn’t made gambling games for years fwiw. Although they do serve them on their app store. Imo Apple would have banned these games a long time ago if it were not for the fact that it granted them hundreds of millions of dollars. The incentives are bad. Everything always boils down to the terrible incentives of app makers paying a tax share of revenue or profit rather than just paying a fixed fee for the distribution service.

enricotal 2y ago

"Allow Markeplace from Epic Games" Wow.... This is a small step in installing an app, but a giant leap for digital freedom. I hope that non-UE citizens can achieve this goal by the end of the decade, not because it is easy, but because it is hard.

dotancohen 2y ago
> not because it is easy, but because it is hard. Terrific reuse! Thank you.
nottorp 2y ago
How's the EU only iOS? I stopped updating at 17.3.1 because I had a feeling it will be buggy in the beginning. Is it safe to use it now?
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  I've installed every update and I've never had an issue. I don't use iOS much, but I don't think I've ever seen a bug. I have seen some weird behaviour, but that could just be me mostly using Android and not knowing how iOS does things.
- thejsa 2y ago
  It’s the same bits, just with feature flags for things like eligibility to install third party stores.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Well if you look at the uBlock Origin comment thread that I started on this article, someone told me you can have that on iOS in theory. Turns out they were just assuming as well. That's why i ask for first hand experience.
jajko 2y ago
Its hard only because greedy corporation execs decided to milk its userbase dry, while giving them massive FU in the face coupled with a tasty spit. Technically, they already done it without breaking a sweat. But amount of pass apple gets from mostly US folks even here on HN and elsewhere, despite all their intentional missteps and fuckups is staggering. Main reason for me to stay away from whole ecosystem, price wise they are just in upper middle tier, functionality wise it depends what you need/expect - from great to pretty much horrible proposition. If google would be chinese corp I would get it when crowds get into us-vs-them mindset, but this fanatism has no base in reality, its more like blind political support of candidate X despite massive character flaws, just because you already invested yourself heavily in given party direction for topic Y. They will keep doing it exactly and only to the point when users will start voting with their wallets, hoping for some apple moral auto-correction is a pipe dream with some serious stuff in that pipe. Or leave it up to regulators with some morals, but I struggle to imagine this working anywhere else outside of EU, and I am not positive about the future change (hoping to be wrong of course). Until apple does something both nasty and visible, they will continue to be uncritically celebrated.

nottorp 2y ago

Let's remember the other fact hidden behind this store of a free to play peddler: Due to governmental pressure, we have a chance to get a browser that can run uBlock Origin on iOS in the future...

viherjuuri 2y ago
I haven’t looked into the issue at all, so can you tell me what is wrong with the current content-blocking features in mobile safari that prevent ublock origin from working? AdGuard works fine, but that in itself doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
caslon 2y ago
uBO already runs on iOS. Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. They also don't care about you having extensions on Android; their most recent redesign left Android Firefox users without extensions for months. Mozilla is an ad-supported company from every angle: Pocket, search deal, the ads built into Firefox. Why don't they get more of the blame for the current state of the browser ecosystem?
- nottorp 2y ago
  > Orion is compatible with Firefox and Chrome extensions. What's Orion, and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? > The lack of extensions in mobile browsers is a sign of Mozilla's decay, not a sign of Apple being unnecessarily restrictive. Agree with Mozilla's decay, but there's also a Chrome for iOS and that doesn't have uBlock Origin either, does it?
  - caslon 2y ago
    Chrome on Android doesn't support browser extensions. Google is an advertising company. They are not incentivized to allow extensions. Extensions block their ads, and are a risk vector for mobile users, who are often young, inexperienced, and running outdated systems software. > What's Orion A web browser, using the same Webkit as everybody else on iOS, with support for browser extensions. People give Apple too much flak for the mismanagement or warped incentives of browser vendors. Lack of extensions in existing browsers isn't their fault to any degree. > and is it compatible with normal desktop Firefox and Chrome extensions, or with the mobile ones? There's not a separate spec for "mobile" Firefox extensions and desktop browser extensions. Google WebExtensions. It's an open standard that desktop Firefox follows and that Chrome almost does.

methou 2y ago

Meanwhile Japan also has similar laws passed recently, but apple did not bend

pas 2y ago
how doestm the enforcement story look in Japan? how big market it is for Apple, how's their historical compliance posture, etc?

andrei_says_ 2y ago

If an EU citizen lives in the U.S., is this an option? How does one install it? What if I travel to the EU? Can I install it while there?

kyriakos 2y ago
Without being specific to this law when you visit a country you follow the laws of that country and hit your home country's. In this case it would mean that apple is not obligated to offer you access to alternative stores while visiting US.
Etheryte 2y ago
Last I checked, all app store regional limitations etc were tied to your billing address. Similarly, you only see apps that are only available in your region based on your billing address.
miki123211 2y ago
Explaining in detail, since there's a lot of misinfo in this subthread. The new georestricted iOS features, like 3rd-party App Stores, are behind feature flags that only activate in certain regions. There are multiple factors taken into account when determining whether a flag should be activated. They include GPS location, location obtained from nearby cell towers, the issuing country of your SIM card, the region you set in settings, the country that nearby WiFi networks broadcast for regulatory purposes[1], and (indirectly, through the billing address) the issuing country of the credit or debit card that you use in the App Store. Not all of them have to match, but the threshold is high enough that you're very unlikely to meet it while physically in the US. Feature flags stay activated for 30 days since last eligibility, so if you're an EU resident and leave for a vacation, you're fine. If you traveled here as an US resident, you (probably) could get these features activated, perhaps needing an european Apple ID and/or SIM, but they would only stay on for 30 days.
- andrei_says_ 2y ago
  Thank you. This sounds quite complicated and I understand why. It’s impressive how much work Apple is willing to deal with in order to protect their turf outside of the EU.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41265892 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41265892