6 ms·

Intel's Thunderbolt Share is a speedy sneakernet replacement and more

44 points by transpute 2y ago

musicale 2y ago
Been using thunderbolt networking for years on macOS, and it is definitely the way to go for things like migration assistant. Prior to thunderbolt you could use ethernet or firewire, the latter also supporting target disk mode. I like universal access etc., but I still wish Apple would bring back target disk mode, target display mode (makes iMacs a lot more useful!), and back to my mac.
- angulardragon03 2y ago
  Target Disk Mode has a replacement on Apple Silicon, if you haven’t tried that out yet. https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/mac-help/mchlb37e8ca7/mac https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/mac-help/mchlb37e8ca7/...
addicted 2y ago
Funny how we are recreating FireWire.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  On the Apple end of things, Thunderbolt was always sold as essentially the next generation of FireWire
- bankcust08385 2y ago
  Yep. Oddly enough, I started collecting vintage FireWire gear for retro PC stuff.
- izacus 2y ago
  Luckly we're not doing anything of the kind. Just because both are wire techs it doesn't mean they're very related in practice. At least TB doesn't keep burning out my cameras like Firewire did.
- stephenr 2y ago
  IP over Thunderbolt has been a thing on Macs since Mavericks, over a decade ago.
bouvin 2y ago
Ah, the good old days, where hooking up a parallel cable between two PCs and running LapLink was a power move [1]… [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31013707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31013707
- jimohalloranau 2y ago
  "Isn't this just LapLink with a Thunderbolt cable" was my immediate thought when I read this. If you're around long enough everything is shiny and new, even the things that you thought were long ago killed by better solutions (like Ethernet in this case).
  - stephenr 2y ago
    For general networking, sure Ethernet is a better solution, but I also don't imagine you're going to get 18Gbit/s+ from regular desktop/laptops over ethernet, regardless of how much gold plating it has.
pastelsky 2y ago
One would’ve thought that after looking at modern day computers that being able to run a wire through two computers being able to transfer data quickly, reliably, easily would be a 101 feature these boxes offer. It’s 2024 and it doesn’t really work!
- baq 2y ago
  OTOH corporate security gets paged whenever you plug something that isn’t a power supply or a monitor into the corporate box, up to and including an Ethernet cable.
  - elric 2y ago
    I've seen banks disable USB ports by means of hot glue. Hardware attacks are super hard to defend against. Depending on your threat model, drastic measures might be warranted. Anything with a USB plug can be a keyboard with an attack payload (e.g. Rubber Ducky). And if you think you can whitelist devices based on USB class or some identifier, you're wrong as they can be spoofed. Heck, there are "USB C cables" that are really attack payload delivery systems (e.g. O.MG Cable). It's a scary world out there. Stay safe.
    - transpute 2y ago
      Banks could ask known-good keyboard vendors to implement PKI auth. Intel has a spec for PCIe device authentication, based on USB-C authentication, https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/reference-guides/pcie-device-security-enhancements.pdf https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents...
      - elric 2y ago
        I hadn't heard of either PCIe auth or USB-C auth. Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole!
      - tiberious726 2y ago
        Like this: https://www.cherryamericas.com/secure-board-1-0 https://www.cherryamericas.com/secure-board-1-0
w4rh4wk5 2y ago
I'd really appreciate Desktop sharing working between Windows and Linux!
- slippy 2y ago
  Funny. It worked just fine when I was in college, back in 1997. You could use VNC to share either direction, or X11 to share one-way. Also SSH/SFTP, and SMB all worked. There were SFTP servers on Windows for free - you could download them off the internet and run them on Windows 95, 98, XP, etc. Moving files between devices has never been difficult.
diffeomorphism 2y ago
> You’ll also need the intermediary Thunderbolt Share software, designed by Intel, which will ship on licensed PCs. If you own a licensed Thunderbolt Share docking station, that accessory maker will point you to where you’ll be able to download the software. Remember, at least one of the PCs or docking stations must have a Thunderbolt Share license. Eww. Killing a feature before it is even released.
- wtallis 2y ago
  I wonder if Intel's actually trying to get a bit of extra revenue from selling this software, or did they outsource it and the licensing situation is for the sake of the real developer? This sounds like what you'd see if Intel doesn't actually own the software and is just putting their branding on somebody else's application.
  - elric 2y ago
    They're already allegedly charging a metric fuckton for TB4 certification/licensing. It's weird how it's 2024 and we can't have simple interoperability ...
    - diffeomorphism 2y ago
      Well, usb4 should work just fine. TB4 instead means that it will probably not work with most devices, except maybe on intel, but maybe still not because a license could be missing. Very helpful "do not buy" logo.
      - cogman10 2y ago
        The thing about USB4 that I really don't like is that it's got a bunch of optional parts in the standard (including the TB3 compatibility). Right now, the best way to guarantee a cable works with basically all the USB4 standards is to purchase a certified TB3 cable. Any ole USB-C cable may support anything from USB 2.0 speeds to TB 4 speeds. It's sort of a crap shoot. The same is true for a USB4 controller.
Neil44 2y ago
Seems at odds with the 'cloud everything' zeitgeist. On Windows at least you can randomly send files to nearby machines using bluetooth, it's slow AF but faster than looking for a USB or making SMB work.
puzzlingcaptcha 2y ago
You can already have an 'ethernet' over USB4 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/component-guidelines/usb4-interdomain-connections https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/co...
- suprjami 2y ago
  Also in Linux: https://www.phoronix.com/news/USB4NET-End-To-End-Flow-Control https://www.phoronix.com/news/USB4NET-End-To-End-Flow-Contro...
trustno2 2y ago
Yeahhhh looking at the license stuff, I think flash disks are still safe
fsiefken 2y ago
wouldn't one be able to just setup a local ip address on the interface (thunderbolt or usb) on both ends of the cable so one can scp or tar mbuffer (on linux) things over? ip addr add 192.168.100.1/24 dev thunderbolt0. that's probably to complicated for the average user. usb-c is fast enough for me by the way, but i keep loosing the usb disks, i'd be nice if they had a kind of airtag.
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  You don't even need to set up a local IP, you'll get an IPv6 address for free. Combined with Avahi/Bonjour/mDNS (preinstalled on most computers these days), accessing devices through `hostname.local` should just work out of the box. The only challenge I can think of is "what is the other computer's hostname" and configuring the firewall to treat the TB link as a trusted network.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  Addresses are assigned automatically on modem distros when the interface comes up.
- kalleboo 2y ago
  If you're on a Mac (at least, I assume Windows too), you just plug them together, they automatically get link-local IPs, you click "enable" on File Sharing (SMB) and boom you're sharing files.
jeroenhd 2y ago
If you have Thunderbolt3+/USB4 on both ends, you can just plug in a cable between the hosts and they'll network. From there you should just be able to find the other host(s) through the normal Windows networking environment for things like file share. RDP shouldn't be more than connecting to `otherhost.local`. Looks to me like this is just a GUI for managing features that USB4 already supports. Maybe they have some optimisations for Thunderbolt network speeds (I don't think SMB is designed to work over 20Gbps links?) but it feels like someone could develop a small Windows application to do all of this without too much effort. The ground work has already been done. I don't have a pair of devices to test this feature with, but based on the documentation alone, none of these features should be new. I would've expected this tool to come with the Intel driver package to make Thunderbolt relevant for end users, not for it to be sold and licensed.
- justinclift 2y ago
  > I don't think SMB is designed to work over 20Gbps links? SMB Direct, which uses RDMA, is apparently designed for (very?) high speed links. I have no idea if TB4 includes anything like RDMA in its list of capabilities though.
- crest 2y ago
  All the applications they're describing can already be done over IP and are only held back by the lack of easy to use, fast reliable network interfaces in consumer hardware especially laptops. If Intel made Ethernet over Thunderbolt fast and efficient on their hardware by making it look like a decent NIC to the operating system this problem would be solved and AMD would have to play catch up since they don't have a line of good enough modern NICs in house. Intel could even show off how fast and efficient their systems are compared to software packet processing. Solve the usable external bandwidth bottleneck for mobile hardware. Launch a line of media converters to 10/25/40 Gb/s Ethernet priced to establish an ecosystem. Give users docking stations that just work.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Yes, usb4 standard includes host-to-host, which sets up IP networking between computers. And yes there's lots and lots of file share over local network apps. That would just work. Intel Thunderbolt Share adds their own ways reimplementation of something like MediaTek CrossMount, a set of standards atop UPNP to share sound cards, screens, input devices. From the article: > It’s really going to offer users an easy, fast, and efficient way to do more with your two PCs by securely sharing screens external monitors, keyboard, mouse, storage and all your files, Intel Thunderbolt Share (ITS) has shown up a number of times, and this elementary confusion with base USB4 capabilities persists. ITS seems semi cool to me, just, 100% would rather have a protocol than a piece of software. Super glue usb-ip to mdns or UPNP, and be real about it. ITS feels like a cheap substitute of the real deal: Software as a Protocol Substitute. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=thunderbolt%20share&sort=byDate https://hn.algolia.com/?query=thunderbolt%20share&sort=byDat...
justinclift 2y ago
Seems to have conflicting info? Second paragraph: Thunderbolt Share offers several options, all at blazing 40Gbps or higher speeds ... Yet further down the page it has: Thunderbolt Share uses up to a 20Gbps connection over Thunderbolt 4 ... And even further down the page it has this: Drag and drop files: Nothing special, though the copy/move functions should take place at Thunderbolt speeds — between 80Gbps and 120Gbps speeds, depending on the specification.
- marginalia_nu 2y ago
  > Nothing special, though the copy/move functions should take place at Thunderbolt speeds — between 80Gbps and 120Gbps speeds, depending on the specification. That seems a bit fantastical. There are no hard drives I'm aware of that will permit sustained I/O at those speeds, in fact I'm pretty sure NVMe doesn't have the bandwidth for this. Unless you hook up a drive with RAM characteristics to PCIe 6.0 x8+ I don't see this happening anytime soon.
  - vardump 2y ago
    For example Crucial T705 [0] can do 14.1 GB/s sequential reads. That's 113 Gbps. Requires PCIe5, though. A lot of "old" NVMe disks can also do over 50 Gbps. Samsung 980/990, WD SN850X come to mind right away. You could run two in a RAID-0 configuration to get over 100 Gbps. [0]: https://uk.pcmag.com/ssds/150961/crucial-t705 https://uk.pcmag.com/ssds/150961/crucial-t705
  - justinclift 2y ago
    In the business/enterprise space, local arrays of flash drives can push those kinds of speeds in a sustained fashion. For example: https://www.highpoint-tech.com/nvme-individual/ssd7749e https://www.highpoint-tech.com/nvme-individual/ssd7749e (that card can theoretically go quite a bit faster) But yeah, seems like a bit of a stretch to be portraying it as consumer stuff. Maybe give it a few years though, cat pictures aren't losing resolution. ;)
nxobject 2y ago
Everyone's talking about how USB4 can do the same job perfectly well with host-to-host networking or presenting as a disk, i.e. target disk mode. That's lame and no fun. Why not do something more exciting and fast and furious (the author said, sarcastically), like PCIe DMA over USB4? I want to send files as fast I can stream vertices to a GPU dammit!
- dathinab 2y ago
  Like mentioned in the article Thunderbolt Share contains two fast file sharing modes.l Furthermore Thunderbolt Share is focused on TB5 so ~120Gbps which is roughly PCIe4 x8 / PCIe5 x4 so it's getting there ;)
- stephenr 2y ago
  Assuming you're referring to the DMA vulnerability, that isn't present when doing IP over TB, because it doesn't use the PCIe layer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)
dash2 2y ago
Step back, big picture: Intel's hot new idea, in 2024, is connecting two computers. With a cable. Wow, these guys are really lost.
- ajsnigrutin 2y ago
  Yep! File transfer! But now with a paid licence! In 2030 maybe they'll have subscriptions available!
- mixmastamyk 2y ago
  This is years old.
rjst01 2y ago
I hope we get a mac client for this at some point - travelling with two laptops sucks, so bringing a NUC I could remote into with good performance would be a huge win.
- stephenr 2y ago
  Macs have had IP over TB for over a decade, you just need to make sure the OS on your chosen NUC also supports it.
  - rjst01 2y ago
    Yes - but as this is a purpose-designed protocol for display transport over thunderbolt, I would expect it to perform better than a remote desktop solution intended to go over a potentially low-bandwidth network. In the past I've found that using RDP to a VM running on localhost can actually perform better than the console provided by the VMM, but it's still not close to the experience of using the OS natively. I would expect this to be a lot closer.
    - stephenr 2y ago
      Is it though? TB has native support for DisplayPort streams, but the article doesn't reference DisplayPort at all, and does make several other references: > A decade ago, Intel showed off something very similar: a 10Gbit Ethernet-over-Thunderbolt demonstration called Thunderbolt Networking. This is a faster version, an Intel representative said via email. Thunderbolt Share uses up to a 20Gbps connection over Thunderbolt 4 with low latency > Essentially, you’re performing a local, cabled version of Microsoft’s Remote Desktop without all of the setup. I don't think there's any reason yet to believe that this isn't just a proprietary (or possibly even just embedded VNC) screen sharing solution that's tweaked for a high-bandwidth low latency connection. macOS has a "high performance mode" for its regular screen sharing (as of v14, Sonoma) which works amazingly well even over wired Gigabit ethernet.
      - rjst01 2y ago
        This was actually shown off at CES earlier this year, here's the only video I can find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCwLjhb4YY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCwLjhb4YY In this it's claimed that Intel is doing a direct framebuffer copy. I'd say the "Microsoft’s Remote Desktop without all of the setup." is editorialising. It's not the clearest shot, but the latency shown at 30s in that video looks pretty good to my eyes. On the other hand I've been caught out by tech companies making exaggerated claims about pre-release products before, so who knows, maybe it actually is no better than VNC.
dingaling 2y ago
So today I learned that a USB-C port with a little lightning bolt beside it doesn't mean "can charge through this" , but means Thunderbolt. Why does Thunderbolt still exist as a discrete technology?
- ianburrell 2y ago
  It doesn't in USB4. USB4 adds Thunderbolt compatible signalling for DisplayPort and PCIe tunneling. It also adds some faster data modes. Thunderbolt 4 is separate, but USB4 products can be Thunderbolt 4 with all the features presumably including Thunderbolt 3 compatibility.
lostmsu 2y ago
How long can these cables be?
mixmastamyk 2y ago
I moved to a new machine, both with recent Linux. First needed to buy a USBC/TB4 cable, about $30 at the time for Anker. Bummer, but it works. I already had sshd running on the older one. Just plugged in to both sides. Ran ‘ip a’ to find the local addresses. Then ran rsync on the new one to sync the data partitions. Transferred at ~10 GB/s !! Half terabyte came over in under 15 mins. Not sure, I made a sandwich and ate it, transfer was done when I returned.
kotaKat 2y ago
I think the only special thing here that you can't already do with TB networking (as everyone else is mentioning) is the desktop control over-the-wire. Are they basically exposing some form of AMT control over Thunderbolt here? That's more what I'm getting is special out of it.
EricE 2y ago
Apple has had this forever - Target Disk Mode for legacy Mac's or share disk/Mac sharing mode for Apple Silicon Mac's. It's come in handy more than a few times for me! https://iboysoft.com/howto/target-disk-mode-mac.html https://iboysoft.com/howto/target-disk-mode-mac.html
- yunohn 2y ago
  Target Disk Mode requires shutting down and putting the macOS device into that mode. Usually to migrate files from your old to new laptop while setting it up. On the contrary, the article shows 2 normally switched-on laptops connected by a cable doing a live transfer whenever you want.

44 points by transpute 2y ago

Been using thunderbolt networking for years on macOS, and it is definitely the way to go for things like migration assistant. Prior to thunderbolt you could use ethernet or firewire, the latter also supporting target disk mode. I like universal access etc., but I still wish Apple would bring back target disk mode, target display mode (makes iMacs a lot more useful!), and back to my mac.

angulardragon03 2y ago
Target Disk Mode has a replacement on Apple Silicon, if you haven’t tried that out yet. https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/mac-help/mchlb37e8ca7/mac https://support.apple.com/en-sg/guide/mac-help/mchlb37e8ca7/...

addicted 2y ago

Funny how we are recreating FireWire.

kalleboo 2y ago
On the Apple end of things, Thunderbolt was always sold as essentially the next generation of FireWire
bankcust08385 2y ago
Yep. Oddly enough, I started collecting vintage FireWire gear for retro PC stuff.
izacus 2y ago
Luckly we're not doing anything of the kind. Just because both are wire techs it doesn't mean they're very related in practice. At least TB doesn't keep burning out my cameras like Firewire did.
stephenr 2y ago
IP over Thunderbolt has been a thing on Macs since Mavericks, over a decade ago.

bouvin 2y ago

Ah, the good old days, where hooking up a parallel cable between two PCs and running LapLink was a power move [1]… [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31013707 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31013707

jimohalloranau 2y ago
"Isn't this just LapLink with a Thunderbolt cable" was my immediate thought when I read this. If you're around long enough everything is shiny and new, even the things that you thought were long ago killed by better solutions (like Ethernet in this case).
- stephenr 2y ago
  For general networking, sure Ethernet is a better solution, but I also don't imagine you're going to get 18Gbit/s+ from regular desktop/laptops over ethernet, regardless of how much gold plating it has.

pastelsky 2y ago

One would’ve thought that after looking at modern day computers that being able to run a wire through two computers being able to transfer data quickly, reliably, easily would be a 101 feature these boxes offer. It’s 2024 and it doesn’t really work!

baq 2y ago
OTOH corporate security gets paged whenever you plug something that isn’t a power supply or a monitor into the corporate box, up to and including an Ethernet cable.
- elric 2y ago
  I've seen banks disable USB ports by means of hot glue. Hardware attacks are super hard to defend against. Depending on your threat model, drastic measures might be warranted. Anything with a USB plug can be a keyboard with an attack payload (e.g. Rubber Ducky). And if you think you can whitelist devices based on USB class or some identifier, you're wrong as they can be spoofed. Heck, there are "USB C cables" that are really attack payload delivery systems (e.g. O.MG Cable). It's a scary world out there. Stay safe.
  - transpute 2y ago
    Banks could ask known-good keyboard vendors to implement PKI auth. Intel has a spec for PCIe device authentication, based on USB-C authentication, https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/reference-guides/pcie-device-security-enhancements.pdf https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents...
    - elric 2y ago
      I hadn't heard of either PCIe auth or USB-C auth. Thanks for sending me down that rabbit hole!
    - tiberious726 2y ago
      Like this: https://www.cherryamericas.com/secure-board-1-0 https://www.cherryamericas.com/secure-board-1-0

w4rh4wk5 2y ago

I'd really appreciate Desktop sharing working between Windows and Linux!

slippy 2y ago
Funny. It worked just fine when I was in college, back in 1997. You could use VNC to share either direction, or X11 to share one-way. Also SSH/SFTP, and SMB all worked. There were SFTP servers on Windows for free - you could download them off the internet and run them on Windows 95, 98, XP, etc. Moving files between devices has never been difficult.

diffeomorphism 2y ago

> You’ll also need the intermediary Thunderbolt Share software, designed by Intel, which will ship on licensed PCs. If you own a licensed Thunderbolt Share docking station, that accessory maker will point you to where you’ll be able to download the software. Remember, at least one of the PCs or docking stations must have a Thunderbolt Share license. Eww. Killing a feature before it is even released.

wtallis 2y ago
I wonder if Intel's actually trying to get a bit of extra revenue from selling this software, or did they outsource it and the licensing situation is for the sake of the real developer? This sounds like what you'd see if Intel doesn't actually own the software and is just putting their branding on somebody else's application.
- elric 2y ago
  They're already allegedly charging a metric fuckton for TB4 certification/licensing. It's weird how it's 2024 and we can't have simple interoperability ...
  - diffeomorphism 2y ago
    Well, usb4 should work just fine. TB4 instead means that it will probably not work with most devices, except maybe on intel, but maybe still not because a license could be missing. Very helpful "do not buy" logo.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      The thing about USB4 that I really don't like is that it's got a bunch of optional parts in the standard (including the TB3 compatibility). Right now, the best way to guarantee a cable works with basically all the USB4 standards is to purchase a certified TB3 cable. Any ole USB-C cable may support anything from USB 2.0 speeds to TB 4 speeds. It's sort of a crap shoot. The same is true for a USB4 controller.

Neil44 2y ago

Seems at odds with the 'cloud everything' zeitgeist. On Windows at least you can randomly send files to nearby machines using bluetooth, it's slow AF but faster than looking for a USB or making SMB work.

puzzlingcaptcha 2y ago

You can already have an 'ethernet' over USB4 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/component-guidelines/usb4-interdomain-connections https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/co...

suprjami 2y ago
Also in Linux: https://www.phoronix.com/news/USB4NET-End-To-End-Flow-Control https://www.phoronix.com/news/USB4NET-End-To-End-Flow-Contro...

trustno2 2y ago

Yeahhhh looking at the license stuff, I think flash disks are still safe

fsiefken 2y ago

wouldn't one be able to just setup a local ip address on the interface (thunderbolt or usb) on both ends of the cable so one can scp or tar mbuffer (on linux) things over? ip addr add 192.168.100.1/24 dev thunderbolt0. that's probably to complicated for the average user. usb-c is fast enough for me by the way, but i keep loosing the usb disks, i'd be nice if they had a kind of airtag.

jeroenhd 2y ago
You don't even need to set up a local IP, you'll get an IPv6 address for free. Combined with Avahi/Bonjour/mDNS (preinstalled on most computers these days), accessing devices through `hostname.local` should just work out of the box. The only challenge I can think of is "what is the other computer's hostname" and configuring the firewall to treat the TB link as a trusted network.
mixmastamyk 2y ago
Addresses are assigned automatically on modem distros when the interface comes up.
kalleboo 2y ago
If you're on a Mac (at least, I assume Windows too), you just plug them together, they automatically get link-local IPs, you click "enable" on File Sharing (SMB) and boom you're sharing files.

jeroenhd 2y ago

If you have Thunderbolt3+/USB4 on both ends, you can just plug in a cable between the hosts and they'll network. From there you should just be able to find the other host(s) through the normal Windows networking environment for things like file share. RDP shouldn't be more than connecting to `otherhost.local`. Looks to me like this is just a GUI for managing features that USB4 already supports. Maybe they have some optimisations for Thunderbolt network speeds (I don't think SMB is designed to work over 20Gbps links?) but it feels like someone could develop a small Windows application to do all of this without too much effort. The ground work has already been done. I don't have a pair of devices to test this feature with, but based on the documentation alone, none of these features should be new. I would've expected this tool to come with the Intel driver package to make Thunderbolt relevant for end users, not for it to be sold and licensed.

justinclift 2y ago
> I don't think SMB is designed to work over 20Gbps links? SMB Direct, which uses RDMA, is apparently designed for (very?) high speed links. I have no idea if TB4 includes anything like RDMA in its list of capabilities though.
crest 2y ago
All the applications they're describing can already be done over IP and are only held back by the lack of easy to use, fast reliable network interfaces in consumer hardware especially laptops. If Intel made Ethernet over Thunderbolt fast and efficient on their hardware by making it look like a decent NIC to the operating system this problem would be solved and AMD would have to play catch up since they don't have a line of good enough modern NICs in house. Intel could even show off how fast and efficient their systems are compared to software packet processing. Solve the usable external bandwidth bottleneck for mobile hardware. Launch a line of media converters to 10/25/40 Gb/s Ethernet priced to establish an ecosystem. Give users docking stations that just work.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Yes, usb4 standard includes host-to-host, which sets up IP networking between computers. And yes there's lots and lots of file share over local network apps. That would just work. Intel Thunderbolt Share adds their own ways reimplementation of something like MediaTek CrossMount, a set of standards atop UPNP to share sound cards, screens, input devices. From the article: > It’s really going to offer users an easy, fast, and efficient way to do more with your two PCs by securely sharing screens external monitors, keyboard, mouse, storage and all your files, Intel Thunderbolt Share (ITS) has shown up a number of times, and this elementary confusion with base USB4 capabilities persists. ITS seems semi cool to me, just, 100% would rather have a protocol than a piece of software. Super glue usb-ip to mdns or UPNP, and be real about it. ITS feels like a cheap substitute of the real deal: Software as a Protocol Substitute. https://hn.algolia.com/?query=thunderbolt%20share&sort=byDate https://hn.algolia.com/?query=thunderbolt%20share&sort=byDat...

justinclift 2y ago

Seems to have conflicting info? Second paragraph: Thunderbolt Share offers several options, all at blazing 40Gbps or higher speeds ... Yet further down the page it has: Thunderbolt Share uses up to a 20Gbps connection over Thunderbolt 4 ... And even further down the page it has this: Drag and drop files: Nothing special, though the copy/move functions should take place at Thunderbolt speeds — between 80Gbps and 120Gbps speeds, depending on the specification.

marginalia_nu 2y ago
> Nothing special, though the copy/move functions should take place at Thunderbolt speeds — between 80Gbps and 120Gbps speeds, depending on the specification. That seems a bit fantastical. There are no hard drives I'm aware of that will permit sustained I/O at those speeds, in fact I'm pretty sure NVMe doesn't have the bandwidth for this. Unless you hook up a drive with RAM characteristics to PCIe 6.0 x8+ I don't see this happening anytime soon.
- vardump 2y ago
  For example Crucial T705 [0] can do 14.1 GB/s sequential reads. That's 113 Gbps. Requires PCIe5, though. A lot of "old" NVMe disks can also do over 50 Gbps. Samsung 980/990, WD SN850X come to mind right away. You could run two in a RAID-0 configuration to get over 100 Gbps. [0]: https://uk.pcmag.com/ssds/150961/crucial-t705 https://uk.pcmag.com/ssds/150961/crucial-t705
- justinclift 2y ago
  In the business/enterprise space, local arrays of flash drives can push those kinds of speeds in a sustained fashion. For example: https://www.highpoint-tech.com/nvme-individual/ssd7749e https://www.highpoint-tech.com/nvme-individual/ssd7749e (that card can theoretically go quite a bit faster) But yeah, seems like a bit of a stretch to be portraying it as consumer stuff. Maybe give it a few years though, cat pictures aren't losing resolution. ;)

nxobject 2y ago

Everyone's talking about how USB4 can do the same job perfectly well with host-to-host networking or presenting as a disk, i.e. target disk mode. That's lame and no fun. Why not do something more exciting and fast and furious (the author said, sarcastically), like PCIe DMA over USB4? I want to send files as fast I can stream vertices to a GPU dammit!

dathinab 2y ago
Like mentioned in the article Thunderbolt Share contains two fast file sharing modes.l Furthermore Thunderbolt Share is focused on TB5 so ~120Gbps which is roughly PCIe4 x8 / PCIe5 x4 so it's getting there ;)
stephenr 2y ago
Assuming you're referring to the DMA vulnerability, that isn't present when doing IP over TB, because it doesn't use the PCIe layer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

dash2 2y ago

Step back, big picture: Intel's hot new idea, in 2024, is connecting two computers. With a cable. Wow, these guys are really lost.

ajsnigrutin 2y ago
Yep! File transfer! But now with a paid licence! In 2030 maybe they'll have subscriptions available!
mixmastamyk 2y ago
This is years old.

rjst01 2y ago

I hope we get a mac client for this at some point - travelling with two laptops sucks, so bringing a NUC I could remote into with good performance would be a huge win.

stephenr 2y ago
Macs have had IP over TB for over a decade, you just need to make sure the OS on your chosen NUC also supports it.
- rjst01 2y ago
  Yes - but as this is a purpose-designed protocol for display transport over thunderbolt, I would expect it to perform better than a remote desktop solution intended to go over a potentially low-bandwidth network. In the past I've found that using RDP to a VM running on localhost can actually perform better than the console provided by the VMM, but it's still not close to the experience of using the OS natively. I would expect this to be a lot closer.
  - stephenr 2y ago
    Is it though? TB has native support for DisplayPort streams, but the article doesn't reference DisplayPort at all, and does make several other references: > A decade ago, Intel showed off something very similar: a 10Gbit Ethernet-over-Thunderbolt demonstration called Thunderbolt Networking. This is a faster version, an Intel representative said via email. Thunderbolt Share uses up to a 20Gbps connection over Thunderbolt 4 with low latency > Essentially, you’re performing a local, cabled version of Microsoft’s Remote Desktop without all of the setup. I don't think there's any reason yet to believe that this isn't just a proprietary (or possibly even just embedded VNC) screen sharing solution that's tweaked for a high-bandwidth low latency connection. macOS has a "high performance mode" for its regular screen sharing (as of v14, Sonoma) which works amazingly well even over wired Gigabit ethernet.
    - rjst01 2y ago
      This was actually shown off at CES earlier this year, here's the only video I can find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCwLjhb4YY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqCwLjhb4YY In this it's claimed that Intel is doing a direct framebuffer copy. I'd say the "Microsoft’s Remote Desktop without all of the setup." is editorialising. It's not the clearest shot, but the latency shown at 30s in that video looks pretty good to my eyes. On the other hand I've been caught out by tech companies making exaggerated claims about pre-release products before, so who knows, maybe it actually is no better than VNC.

dingaling 2y ago

So today I learned that a USB-C port with a little lightning bolt beside it doesn't mean "can charge through this" , but means Thunderbolt. Why does Thunderbolt still exist as a discrete technology?

ianburrell 2y ago
It doesn't in USB4. USB4 adds Thunderbolt compatible signalling for DisplayPort and PCIe tunneling. It also adds some faster data modes. Thunderbolt 4 is separate, but USB4 products can be Thunderbolt 4 with all the features presumably including Thunderbolt 3 compatibility.

lostmsu 2y ago

How long can these cables be?

mixmastamyk 2y ago

I moved to a new machine, both with recent Linux. First needed to buy a USBC/TB4 cable, about $30 at the time for Anker. Bummer, but it works. I already had sshd running on the older one. Just plugged in to both sides. Ran ‘ip a’ to find the local addresses. Then ran rsync on the new one to sync the data partitions. Transferred at ~10 GB/s !! Half terabyte came over in under 15 mins. Not sure, I made a sandwich and ate it, transfer was done when I returned.

kotaKat 2y ago

I think the only special thing here that you can't already do with TB networking (as everyone else is mentioning) is the desktop control over-the-wire. Are they basically exposing some form of AMT control over Thunderbolt here? That's more what I'm getting is special out of it.

EricE 2y ago

Apple has had this forever - Target Disk Mode for legacy Mac's or share disk/Mac sharing mode for Apple Silicon Mac's. It's come in handy more than a few times for me! https://iboysoft.com/howto/target-disk-mode-mac.html https://iboysoft.com/howto/target-disk-mode-mac.html

yunohn 2y ago
Target Disk Mode requires shutting down and putting the macOS device into that mode. Usually to migrate files from your old to new laptop while setting it up. On the contrary, the article shows 2 normally switched-on laptops connected by a cable doing a live transfer whenever you want.