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> Hamas' attempt to drag them into war In fairness, this omits mention of other actors which have tried to bait Iran (and thereby drag the United States) into

> Hamas' attempt to drag them into war In fairness, this omits mention of other actors which have tried to bait Iran (and thereby drag the United States) into wider regional conflict Or perhaps Hamas assassinated its own politburo chairman in Tehran? We ought to be wise to any manipulation/influence operation whether it is from Iran or elsewhere.

littlestymaar 2y ago
That's why I said “their reactions since Hamas' attempt”. But I don't really think Israel genuinely wants to bring Iran to war (I mean, Smodricht and Ben Gvir are fanatics so I'm pretty sure they'd like to, but I don't think Netanyahou wants it, and I'm pretty sure senior Tsahal officers don't). But they are taking full advantage of Iranian's reluctance for escalation.
- walleeee 2y ago
  The military leadership does not want a war it knows it can't win, that's correct. This is why it has more or less openly rebuked the government on at least one occasion: pointing out that Hamas is an idea, for instance, and that you don't destroy an idea with bombs and bullets (note these things can destroy a city or a people). Israeli society appears to be splitting. There is now a faction which is openly eschatalogical in not only tone but core epistemology and which exerts growing control over the state. The fact that Netanyahu remains seated atop this increasingly schizophrenic tiger is not evidence of sound leadership or any real desire for peace, it merely demonstrates adroit maneuvering on his part and the subservience of the American political class. Before last October a decent fraction of Israeli society wanted to see him in a courtroom. I think it's becoming less and less meaningful to speak of what "Israel wants". For that matter, the same may be said of the United States, whose foreign policy one would be hard-pressed to call coherent. One common factor appears to be an inability to recognize that other nations may have legitimate security interests, another seems to be indiscriminate paranoia, and intransigence a third.
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

littlestymaar 2y ago

That's why I said “their reactions since Hamas' attempt”. But I don't really think Israel genuinely wants to bring Iran to war (I mean, Smodricht and Ben Gvir are fanatics so I'm pretty sure they'd like to, but I don't think Netanyahou wants it, and I'm pretty sure senior Tsahal officers don't). But they are taking full advantage of Iranian's reluctance for escalation.

walleeee 2y ago
The military leadership does not want a war it knows it can't win, that's correct. This is why it has more or less openly rebuked the government on at least one occasion: pointing out that Hamas is an idea, for instance, and that you don't destroy an idea with bombs and bullets (note these things can destroy a city or a people). Israeli society appears to be splitting. There is now a faction which is openly eschatalogical in not only tone but core epistemology and which exerts growing control over the state. The fact that Netanyahu remains seated atop this increasingly schizophrenic tiger is not evidence of sound leadership or any real desire for peace, it merely demonstrates adroit maneuvering on his part and the subservience of the American political class. Before last October a decent fraction of Israeli society wanted to see him in a courtroom. I think it's becoming less and less meaningful to speak of what "Israel wants". For that matter, the same may be said of the United States, whose foreign policy one would be hard-pressed to call coherent. One common factor appears to be an inability to recognize that other nations may have legitimate security interests, another seems to be indiscriminate paranoia, and intransigence a third.
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  Yeah, I agree with pretty much everything you said.