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"Measuring it" in this instance doesn't mean picking up a ruler and measuring distance or seeing phenomena with the naked eye. Measuring it means that there ar

"Measuring it" in this instance doesn't mean picking up a ruler and measuring distance or seeing phenomena with the naked eye. Measuring it means that there are actual discernible differences that can be "sussed out" and that and this very important, separate the so called "fake reasoning" from "real reasoning". A suite of trick questions millions of humans would also flounder on ain't it, unless of course humans are no longer general intelligences. You can't eat your cake and have it. The whole point of a distinction is that it distinguises something from the other. You can't claim a distinction that doesn't distinguish. You're just making things up at that point.

lucianbr 2y ago
Your position is that it can't be measured or distinguished. My position is that it can be distinguished: there's not much return on investment from ai, because it's not really intelligent. If it was able to reason generally, it would create plenty of ROI. You can't use a contradiction between your position and mine to prove my position is absurd.
- famouswaffles 2y ago
  I don't know where you have the idea there's been no return of investment from ai but it's so blatantly wrong i don't even know where to begin.
  - lucianbr 2y ago
    https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/07/02/what-happened-to-the-artificial-intelligence-revolution https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/07/02/w... https://www.ftadviser.com/investments/2024/07/03/ai-will-take-time-to-show-a-return-on-investment/ https://www.ftadviser.com/investments/2024/07/03/ai-will-tak... https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-return-investment-disappointing-goldman-sachs-report-2024-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-return-investment-disappo... https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbestechcouncil/2024/04/10/the-elusive-case-of-roi-in-ai-projects/ https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbestechcouncil/2024/04/10... Maybe begin by reading all of these. The Goldman Sachs report is even discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 There's talk of OpenAI going bankrupt. It's an exaggeration, but they're not making money, that's clear. Which means ROI is zero. https://www.forbes.com/sites/lutzfinger/2023/08/18/is-openai-going-bankrupt-no-but-ai-models-dont-create-moats/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lutzfinger/2023/08/18/is-openai... Just simply deny reality, that makes for constructive discussion I guess.
    - famouswaffles 2y ago
      At worst, literally all of those articles (yes even Goldman) say the return of investment might not be as high as hyped. Nothing about no return or even little return. I'm not the one denying reality here.

lucianbr 2y ago

Your position is that it can't be measured or distinguished. My position is that it can be distinguished: there's not much return on investment from ai, because it's not really intelligent. If it was able to reason generally, it would create plenty of ROI. You can't use a contradiction between your position and mine to prove my position is absurd.

famouswaffles 2y ago
I don't know where you have the idea there's been no return of investment from ai but it's so blatantly wrong i don't even know where to begin.
- lucianbr 2y ago
  https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/07/02/what-happened-to-the-artificial-intelligence-revolution https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2024/07/02/w... https://www.ftadviser.com/investments/2024/07/03/ai-will-take-time-to-show-a-return-on-investment/ https://www.ftadviser.com/investments/2024/07/03/ai-will-tak... https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-return-investment-disappointing-goldman-sachs-report-2024-6 https://www.businessinsider.com/ai-return-investment-disappo... https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbestechcouncil/2024/04/10/the-elusive-case-of-roi-in-ai-projects/ https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbestechcouncil/2024/04/10... Maybe begin by reading all of these. The Goldman Sachs report is even discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 There's talk of OpenAI going bankrupt. It's an exaggeration, but they're not making money, that's clear. Which means ROI is zero. https://www.forbes.com/sites/lutzfinger/2023/08/18/is-openai-going-bankrupt-no-but-ai-models-dont-create-moats/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/lutzfinger/2023/08/18/is-openai... Just simply deny reality, that makes for constructive discussion I guess.
  - famouswaffles 2y ago
    At worst, literally all of those articles (yes even Goldman) say the return of investment might not be as high as hyped. Nothing about no return or even little return. I'm not the one denying reality here.