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> It’s not just that we choose our own distractions; it’s that the pleasure we get from being distracted is the pleasure of taking action and being free. There’

by feoren 2y ago

> It’s not just that we choose our own distractions; it’s that the pleasure we get from being distracted is the pleasure of taking action and being free. There’s a glee that comes from making choices, a contentment that settles after we’ve asserted our autonomy An interesting take, but I don't feel like I'm making a choice at all. In fact I'm often screaming at myself to stop scrolling and go to bed, but I don't. I never feel more powerless than when I am stuck in a distraction loop. I literally want to stop, but can't. There's no glee, no autonomy in that.

svat 2y ago
It is typical of addictions that they are ineffective at solving the problems that make us seek them — so IMO it wouldn't be surprising if an urge for autonomy leads to scrolling which doesn't actually satisfy that urge. Note that the article a couple of paragraphs later mentions gamblers and occasional “winning” that is in the long term losing. But I think a solution, or at least an experiment to test the hypothesis, is suggested by your reaction ("When scrolling I feel powerless, no autonomy") which is itself a desire for more autonomy: what happens if we instead cultivate the opposite value, less autonomy/freedom and more service/subordination/allegiance (to the job or sleep routine or whatever)? If the theory of the article is right, then a desire for autonomy leads to distraction which, being unsatisfying, only intensifies that desire. So cultivating the opposite (telling oneself "What I need right now is actually not autonomy, but fidelity to higher goals" or whatever) may curb the hunger for autonomy more effectively than our ineffective distraction does?
- maxbond 2y ago
  This is tangential but I watched an interesting video essay about slot machines recently[1], based on the book Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll, and one of the surprising things Schüll's research turned up in interviews with slot machine gamblers was that for some winning was jarring and not really satisfying. It took them out of the trance-like "machine state," and their goal was not to win but to linger in the machine state. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=jQIHqkudgNY https://youtube.com/watch?v=jQIHqkudgNY
pizza 2y ago
> Many of the teenage students I encountered seemed to be in a state of what I would call depressive hedonia. Depression is usually characterized as a state of anhedonia, but the condition I'm referring to is constituted not by an inability to get pleasure so much as it by an inability to do anything else except pursue pleasure. There is a sense that 'something is missing' - but no appreciation that this mysterious, missing enjoyment can only be accessed beyond the pleasure principle. In large part this is a consequence of students' ambiguous structural position, stranded between their old role as subjects of disciplinary institutions and their new status as consumers of services. Mark Fisher, Capitalist Realism
Apocryphon 2y ago
Perhaps the choice is to refrain from making a more painful choice, even if the pain is fleeting; do you often find yourself too exhausted to prepare for bed, so instead it is more comforting to numb yourself by scrolling in the endless present?
steve_adams_86 2y ago
Eerily I recently spoke to someone who described an opioid addiction in almost the exact same way. He wanted to stop every single minute of every day, but spent every one of those minutes working towards more drugs. It was hard to listen to and imagine the experience of needing the thing you’ve come to hate more than anything. Eventually the “good feeling” it gave him felt faint and yet became psychologically unbearable at the same time. I don’t know what most people’s experiences are like, but this came to mind as I read your comment. Clearly not the same things, just similar enough to jog my memory. Autonomy, desire, and control are often extremely dysfunctional or even antagonistic of each other in humans.

by feoren 2y ago

svat 2y ago

It is typical of addictions that they are ineffective at solving the problems that make us seek them — so IMO it wouldn't be surprising if an urge for autonomy leads to scrolling which doesn't actually satisfy that urge. Note that the article a couple of paragraphs later mentions gamblers and occasional “winning” that is in the long term losing. But I think a solution, or at least an experiment to test the hypothesis, is suggested by your reaction ("When scrolling I feel powerless, no autonomy") which is itself a desire for more autonomy: what happens if we instead cultivate the opposite value, less autonomy/freedom and more service/subordination/allegiance (to the job or sleep routine or whatever)? If the theory of the article is right, then a desire for autonomy leads to distraction which, being unsatisfying, only intensifies that desire. So cultivating the opposite (telling oneself "What I need right now is actually not autonomy, but fidelity to higher goals" or whatever) may curb the hunger for autonomy more effectively than our ineffective distraction does?

maxbond 2y ago
This is tangential but I watched an interesting video essay about slot machines recently[1], based on the book Addiction by Design by Natasha Dow Schüll, and one of the surprising things Schüll's research turned up in interviews with slot machine gamblers was that for some winning was jarring and not really satisfying. It took them out of the trance-like "machine state," and their goal was not to win but to linger in the machine state. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=jQIHqkudgNY https://youtube.com/watch?v=jQIHqkudgNY

pizza 2y ago

> Many of the teenage students I encountered seemed to be in a state of what I would call depressive hedonia. Depression is usually characterized as a state of anhedonia, but the condition I'm referring to is constituted not by an inability to get pleasure so much as it by an inability to do anything else except pursue pleasure. There is a sense that 'something is missing' - but no appreciation that this mysterious, missing enjoyment can only be accessed beyond the pleasure principle. In large part this is a consequence of students' ambiguous structural position, stranded between their old role as subjects of disciplinary institutions and their new status as consumers of services. Mark Fisher, Capitalist Realism

Apocryphon 2y ago

Perhaps the choice is to refrain from making a more painful choice, even if the pain is fleeting; do you often find yourself too exhausted to prepare for bed, so instead it is more comforting to numb yourself by scrolling in the endless present?

steve_adams_86 2y ago

Eerily I recently spoke to someone who described an opioid addiction in almost the exact same way. He wanted to stop every single minute of every day, but spent every one of those minutes working towards more drugs. It was hard to listen to and imagine the experience of needing the thing you’ve come to hate more than anything. Eventually the “good feeling” it gave him felt faint and yet became psychologically unbearable at the same time. I don’t know what most people’s experiences are like, but this came to mind as I read your comment. Clearly not the same things, just similar enough to jog my memory. Autonomy, desire, and control are often extremely dysfunctional or even antagonistic of each other in humans.