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> Russia, Iran, North Korea You're missing China & Israel: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/may/30/openai-disinformation-russia-israel-china

> Russia, Iran, North Korea You're missing China & Israel: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/may/30/openai-disinformation-russia-israel-china-iran https://www.theguardian.com/technology/article/2024/may/30/o... / https://archive.is/y0V3A https://archive.is/y0V3A And, according to OpenAI, they're interfering not just in the US: https://www.thehindu.com/elections/lok-sabha/openai-says-stalled-attempts-by-israel-based-company-to-interfere-in-indian-elections/article68237334.ece https://www.thehindu.com/elections/lok-sabha/openai-says-sta... / https://archive.is/RWn8X https://archive.is/RWn8X

stickfigure 2y ago
Israel and China are not playing zero-sum games. Israel certainly derives benefits from a powerful United States. They may want to influence US politics, but they have a strong collaborative interest. China is more mixed, but our economies are still intertwined. The CCP might wish to shift balance and reduce the power of the United States, but we still have mutual interests. On the other hand, if the leaders of Russia or Iran or North Korea could push a button that immediately and completely depopulates the United States without attribution, I'm pretty sure they would push it without hesitation.
- ignoramous 2y ago
  > ...they have a strong collaborative interest "Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House" (2019), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954298 > I'm pretty sure they would push it without hesitation This "let's kill 'em all before they kill us" line of reasoning is... eerily similar to post-WW1 propaganda in Germany about the Bolsheviks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel... / https://archive.is/f0jkN https://archive.is/f0jkN
  - stickfigure 2y ago
    Yes, collaborators spy on each other. > This "let's kill 'em all before they kill us" line of reasoning You made this up, nobody proposed that. On the other hand, failing to acknowledge and address the fact that other people do in fact want to kill you is just plain stupid. This comes to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahatma_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahatma_Gandh... Ghandi's assassin killed him on his third attempt. The prior two attempts failed; the guy was arrested and "released due to Gandhi's own policy of declining to press criminal charges". There are probably people who think this is some sort of noble act. I am not one of them. The results speak for themselves.
    - ignoramous 2y ago
      > You made this up, nobody proposed that Well, you made broad stroke generalizations and prophesied an imminent apocalypse. The German propaganda was all about this back in the 1940s (as mentioned in the article), drumming up mass hysteria to justify the atrocities against the Soviets. Even if you're biased and seem to have a binary view of the world (black v white, good v evil etc), may be you mean well, and I'm placing too much weight in your words. > collaborators spy on each other I think you read past the part where their spies sold secrets to the Chinese. (Personally, for all his failings, I like Gandhi: His pacifying politics was net good for the stability of a vast, nascent country as diverse & poor as India, keeping it from plunging into chaos from artificially drawn up borders post 300 years of ruthless colonial repression).

stickfigure 2y ago

Israel and China are not playing zero-sum games. Israel certainly derives benefits from a powerful United States. They may want to influence US politics, but they have a strong collaborative interest. China is more mixed, but our economies are still intertwined. The CCP might wish to shift balance and reduce the power of the United States, but we still have mutual interests. On the other hand, if the leaders of Russia or Iran or North Korea could push a button that immediately and completely depopulates the United States without attribution, I'm pretty sure they would push it without hesitation.

ignoramous 2y ago
> ...they have a strong collaborative interest "Israel accused of planting mysterious spy devices near the White House" (2019), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954298 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20954298 > I'm pretty sure they would push it without hesitation This "let's kill 'em all before they kill us" line of reasoning is... eerily similar to post-WW1 propaganda in Germany about the Bolsheviks: https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel-gaza-historian-omer-bartov https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/aug/13/israel... / https://archive.is/f0jkN https://archive.is/f0jkN
- stickfigure 2y ago
  Yes, collaborators spy on each other. > This "let's kill 'em all before they kill us" line of reasoning You made this up, nobody proposed that. On the other hand, failing to acknowledge and address the fact that other people do in fact want to kill you is just plain stupid. This comes to mind: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahatma_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Mahatma_Gandh... Ghandi's assassin killed him on his third attempt. The prior two attempts failed; the guy was arrested and "released due to Gandhi's own policy of declining to press criminal charges". There are probably people who think this is some sort of noble act. I am not one of them. The results speak for themselves.
  - ignoramous 2y ago
    > You made this up, nobody proposed that Well, you made broad stroke generalizations and prophesied an imminent apocalypse. The German propaganda was all about this back in the 1940s (as mentioned in the article), drumming up mass hysteria to justify the atrocities against the Soviets. Even if you're biased and seem to have a binary view of the world (black v white, good v evil etc), may be you mean well, and I'm placing too much weight in your words. > collaborators spy on each other I think you read past the part where their spies sold secrets to the Chinese. (Personally, for all his failings, I like Gandhi: His pacifying politics was net good for the stability of a vast, nascent country as diverse & poor as India, keeping it from plunging into chaos from artificially drawn up borders post 300 years of ruthless colonial repression).