6 ms·

FYI, the Apple flow of installing the third-party marketplace is (unsurprisingly) designed to be a pain in the ass. Here's the general experience: https://ada

by kmfrk 2y ago

FYI, the Apple flow of installing the third-party marketplace is (unsurprisingly) designed to be a pain in the ass. Here's the general experience: https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience.html https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience... For me, installing the Epic Games Store was such a weird experience that felt very un-Apple-like. I recommend people (in EU) try it out for themselves just to see what it's like: https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/mobile/ios https://store.epicgames.com/en-US/mobile/ios.

LeoPanthera 2y ago
Even after looking at that, it doesn't seem that bad. It's about the same as installing a management or configuration profile, but arguably, has the potential for more risk to your data privacy, so I wouldn't expect it to be easy. OK, it could definitely use some more polish, but this is literally the first time Apple has done this.
- Spivak 2y ago
  And I don't think the dialogs are malicious or anything, I would do the same thing because I don't want people complaining to me and you have to hammer it into people because no one reads. Edit: To be clear I'm also in the set of people who don't read.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - idle_zealot 2y ago
    More screens to click through only guarantees that nobody will read them. For a warning to be effective you need to keep it short and simple.
    - borski 2y ago
      That’s only true if you’re installing many third-party app stores. Showing a warning once, or even a couple times, doesn’t necessarily cause the same desensitization.
- Ambroos 2y ago
  I'm sorry but the way they interrupt the flow so many times is ridiculous. It would take minimal changes to make this flow non-disruptive but Apple wants users to drop off as much as possible during installation.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >I'm sorry but the way they interrupt the flow so many times is ridiculous. There's similar number of steps to trust a third party root certificate, or a set a third party DoH provider. Do you also think those tasks should be 1click as well?
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
      Please, do enlighten us about how voluntarily installing a competing store is in any way similar to installing a third party root certificate.
      - gruez 2y ago
        They're both gatekeepers. One is for iOS apps, the other is for websites. I'm not sure how "voluntarily" is a relevant factor here. People can and do install alternate roots, especially back in the days when letsencrypt didn't exist and the WebTrust/CAB monopoly was charging tens to hundreds of dollars for certificates.
        RandomThoughts3 2y ago
        > They're both gatekeepers. At some point, you go past squinting your eyes very hard straight into non sense you know.
  - ketzo 2y ago
    Part of Apple's product pitch is "you can give this phone to No-Tech Uncle Steve, and it'll be fine" Some of this interruption is to scare off users who will absolutely fuck up their phones with bitcoin mining apps, given the opportunity You can argue whether this paternalistic approach to technology is appropriate for the entire userbase, but there are definitely a number of cases that Apple is doing a genuinely good thing for their users here.
- Teever 2y ago
  Sure, it could be worse. But it could be better. Compare it to installing fdroid on a stock a droid device. If Apple hasn't made the experience of installing alternative stores on their phones as simple as installing fdroid on a stock android phone it's not because they can't, but because they don't want to. And that's fine. That's just another thing the EU can force them to do.
- quitit 2y ago
  >The iOS 17.4 app marketplace flow is a disaster It takes longer to read the article than it does to install an alternate app store. The authors constant exaggeration for how difficult it is rings like an infomercial aka: https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaDN6ZjhyemlldTM2ZGwwa21rcHpxcjB5ZzIzZ3piNzNhNG5lNzQxaiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/mQpizq8fKz4Jy/giphy.gif https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaDN6ZjhyemlldTM...
sschueller 2y ago
This is not going to fly. The EU will force them to equal the playing field.
- firesteelrain 2y ago
  EU doesn’t get to make design decisions
  - sschueller 2y ago
    They won't, but the playing field needs to be the same. If I have to jump unreasonable hurdles it's still anti competitive.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - rchaud 2y ago
      Even on MacOS, Apple will prompt you to delete applications that were installed outside the app store when you try to run them for the first time. They don't provide any instructions on how to disable this 'feature' , I had to look it up online. Enabling the app requires going several menus deep into System Preferences and setting a security toggle.
  - cromka 2y ago
    USB-C on iPhone would like to have a word.
    - firesteelrain 2y ago
      Apple made the change outside of the regulation. It already had USB C on the iPad. It’s going to end up port less like the Apple Watch one day despite EU regulations. Are we going to force Apple to provide a power port? No that’s stupid
      - cruffle_duffle 2y ago
mikepurvis 2y ago
Netflix's push into mobile gaming goes another way— distribution is still through the Apple app store, and all the individual titles are $0, but at startup they do a handshake with your Netflix app to make sure you're logged into an active account. Obviously that doesn't break the stranglehold on the distribution side, so you're still subject to Apple's delays, errors, and moralizing through the review process. And I expect Apple would have something to say about it if the "main app" was in fact taking your money in an a la carte way vs just being a gateway to a subscription. Either way, it's not hard to see how Xbox Game Pass could pursue a similar model and point to what Netflix is doing as being basically the same deal.
gruez 2y ago
>Here's the general experience: >https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience... The guide on alt store only lists 3 steps[1]. The link you posted is breaking those steps into as many steps as possible for dramatic effect. [1] https://altstore.io/download https://altstore.io/download

by kmfrk 2y ago

LeoPanthera 2y ago

Even after looking at that, it doesn't seem that bad. It's about the same as installing a management or configuration profile, but arguably, has the potential for more risk to your data privacy, so I wouldn't expect it to be easy. OK, it could definitely use some more polish, but this is literally the first time Apple has done this.

Spivak 2y ago
And I don't think the dialogs are malicious or anything, I would do the same thing because I don't want people complaining to me and you have to hammer it into people because no one reads. Edit: To be clear I'm also in the set of people who don't read.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- idle_zealot 2y ago
  More screens to click through only guarantees that nobody will read them. For a warning to be effective you need to keep it short and simple.
  - borski 2y ago
    That’s only true if you’re installing many third-party app stores. Showing a warning once, or even a couple times, doesn’t necessarily cause the same desensitization.
Ambroos 2y ago
I'm sorry but the way they interrupt the flow so many times is ridiculous. It would take minimal changes to make this flow non-disruptive but Apple wants users to drop off as much as possible during installation.
- gruez 2y ago
  >I'm sorry but the way they interrupt the flow so many times is ridiculous. There's similar number of steps to trust a third party root certificate, or a set a third party DoH provider. Do you also think those tasks should be 1click as well?
  - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
    Please, do enlighten us about how voluntarily installing a competing store is in any way similar to installing a third party root certificate.
    - gruez 2y ago
      They're both gatekeepers. One is for iOS apps, the other is for websites. I'm not sure how "voluntarily" is a relevant factor here. People can and do install alternate roots, especially back in the days when letsencrypt didn't exist and the WebTrust/CAB monopoly was charging tens to hundreds of dollars for certificates.
      - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
        > They're both gatekeepers. At some point, you go past squinting your eyes very hard straight into non sense you know.
- ketzo 2y ago
  Part of Apple's product pitch is "you can give this phone to No-Tech Uncle Steve, and it'll be fine" Some of this interruption is to scare off users who will absolutely fuck up their phones with bitcoin mining apps, given the opportunity You can argue whether this paternalistic approach to technology is appropriate for the entire userbase, but there are definitely a number of cases that Apple is doing a genuinely good thing for their users here.
Teever 2y ago
Sure, it could be worse. But it could be better. Compare it to installing fdroid on a stock a droid device. If Apple hasn't made the experience of installing alternative stores on their phones as simple as installing fdroid on a stock android phone it's not because they can't, but because they don't want to. And that's fine. That's just another thing the EU can force them to do.
quitit 2y ago
>The iOS 17.4 app marketplace flow is a disaster It takes longer to read the article than it does to install an alternate app store. The authors constant exaggeration for how difficult it is rings like an infomercial aka: https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaDN6ZjhyemlldTM2ZGwwa21rcHpxcjB5ZzIzZ3piNzNhNG5lNzQxaiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/mQpizq8fKz4Jy/giphy.gif https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExaDN6ZjhyemlldTM...

sschueller 2y ago

This is not going to fly. The EU will force them to equal the playing field.

firesteelrain 2y ago
EU doesn’t get to make design decisions
- sschueller 2y ago
  They won't, but the playing field needs to be the same. If I have to jump unreasonable hurdles it's still anti competitive.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - rchaud 2y ago
    Even on MacOS, Apple will prompt you to delete applications that were installed outside the app store when you try to run them for the first time. They don't provide any instructions on how to disable this 'feature' , I had to look it up online. Enabling the app requires going several menus deep into System Preferences and setting a security toggle.
- cromka 2y ago
  USB-C on iPhone would like to have a word.
  - firesteelrain 2y ago
    Apple made the change outside of the regulation. It already had USB C on the iPad. It’s going to end up port less like the Apple Watch one day despite EU regulations. Are we going to force Apple to provide a power port? No that’s stupid
    - cruffle_duffle 2y ago

mikepurvis 2y ago

Netflix's push into mobile gaming goes another way— distribution is still through the Apple app store, and all the individual titles are $0, but at startup they do a handshake with your Netflix app to make sure you're logged into an active account. Obviously that doesn't break the stranglehold on the distribution side, so you're still subject to Apple's delays, errors, and moralizing through the review process. And I expect Apple would have something to say about it if the "main app" was in fact taking your money in an a la carte way vs just being a gateway to a subscription. Either way, it's not hard to see how Xbox Game Pass could pursue a similar model and point to what Netflix is doing as being basically the same deal.

gruez 2y ago

>Here's the general experience: >https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience https://adamdemasi.com/2024/04/19/app-marketplace-experience... The guide on alt store only lists 3 steps[1]. The link you posted is breaking those steps into as many steps as possible for dramatic effect. [1] https://altstore.io/download https://altstore.io/download