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AFP Spent $500k Trying to Lock Up Autistic 13-Year-Old on Terrorism Charges

45 points by hn_acker 2y ago

hn_acker 2y ago
The full article title is: > Australian Feds Spent More Than $500,000 Trying To Lock Up An Autistic 13-Year-Old On Terrorism Charges AFP stands for Australian Federal Police.
- hk__2 2y ago
  Thanks; before clicking I was confused because I thought about Agence France Press, the French press agency.
  - wnissen 2y ago
    I was really turning this over in my head. "Okay, the French are generally humane but they completely lose their minds when it comes to certain forms of non-Frenchness, typically those associated with colonialism. And terrorism is a big deal there, most recently the Bataclan. So maybe there was a person who was, like, ethnically Algerian and autistic, but how in the world could a press agency spend that much money doing such an investigation?!?" Makes so much more sense now.
darby_nine 2y ago
I suspect this is an example of "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". If you're incentivized to rustle up a bunch of terrorists that just aren't there, you're strongly incentivized towards activity that will create terrorists that you can then lock up. Basically harassing lonely people and ruining their lives in the name of security theater. I think people around me, at least, are more scared of mass shootings by my neighbors now than they ever were of people these anti-terrorism programs were actually built to defend against—namely, muslims (at least here in the US, i'm sure australia has its own issues). EDIT: wording, done editing.
- mhh__ 2y ago
  I think the count dankula (guy who taught his dog to do a Nazi salute) case in the UK is a pretty good example of this although on a lesser scale than terrorism charges The guy (a clown, not genuine problem afaict) makes bad joke, gov goes after him for being offensive, he's now radicalized against a state that has clearly abused him.
  - altruios 2y ago
    > he's now radicalized now?!?! Putting the cart before the horse... Nazis are a weird subject to joke about. If they are the butt of the joke - being made fun of for their ridiculousness - that's okay. Teaching a dog to make the nazi salute doesn't meet that threshold for me. To me, that's already radicalized behavior masked as "it's just a joke bro, don't get so worked up"... This is the kind of 'joke' that's only 'funny' to other nazi. Shoving nazism everywhere you can and laughing at other people's discomfort isn't the behavior of a comic: it's the behavior of a nazi.
- duxup 2y ago
  It's probably not a great resume builder to say "Decided not to move forward." on some things. Maybe it should be.
- Peteragain 2y ago
  Yep. The Australian term is "measurement dysfunction" - measure something people do, and it becomes the only thing they do. It's a generic principle - often tragic when applied to politicians and law enforcement.
seattle_spring 2y ago
Isn’t it a good thing that we’re stopping mentally ill kids from shooting up stuff before it happens? (and no, I’m not saying autism automatically means mental illness or danger to society, so go ahead and save that outrage for someone else)
- zbsksvsmd 2y ago
  if you stop something before it happens, no crime has been committed.
  - hk__2 2y ago
    > if you stop something before it happens, no crime has been committed. Attempting to kill people is a crime in most jurisdictions, even if someone stops you before you actually do it.
  - kube-system 2y ago
    Planning crimes, is in itself, often criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchoate_offense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchoate_offense
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
    Classic “engineers pretend to understand the law” logic.
- wizzwizz4 2y ago
  Then what are you saying? It's clearly not commentary on the article. > As the court order overturning the criminal charges noted, officers deliberately steered Carrick away from anything that would have helped him and towards actions that would have seen the rest of his life destroyed. > The community would not expect law enforcement officers to encourage a 13-14 year old child towards racial hatred, distrust of police and violent extremism, encouraging the child’s fixation on ISIS,” magistrate Lesley Fleming said in the decision.
  - jrussino 2y ago
itsmemattchung 2y ago
According to the article, once the case was tossed out by the judge, "Deputy Commissioner Krissy Barrett apparently felt the officers might possibly feel bad about what they’d done, so she took the time to assure them that they were still a valuable part of the AFP’s radicalization program Joint Counter-Terrorism Task Force": “It is really important to note that this was a very difficult and complex investigation for everyone involved, and one which threw up many challenges,” she said in the email. “I recognise and thank everyone involved for their tenacity, professionalism and commitment to duty. “I also use this opportunity to acknowledge the fantastic work that our covert online operatives do, under very difficult circumstances, to keep the community safe.”

45 points by hn_acker 2y ago

The full article title is: > Australian Feds Spent More Than $500,000 Trying To Lock Up An Autistic 13-Year-Old On Terrorism Charges AFP stands for Australian Federal Police.

hk__2 2y ago
Thanks; before clicking I was confused because I thought about Agence France Press, the French press agency.
- wnissen 2y ago
  I was really turning this over in my head. "Okay, the French are generally humane but they completely lose their minds when it comes to certain forms of non-Frenchness, typically those associated with colonialism. And terrorism is a big deal there, most recently the Bataclan. So maybe there was a person who was, like, ethnically Algerian and autistic, but how in the world could a press agency spend that much money doing such an investigation?!?" Makes so much more sense now.

darby_nine 2y ago

I suspect this is an example of "when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure". If you're incentivized to rustle up a bunch of terrorists that just aren't there, you're strongly incentivized towards activity that will create terrorists that you can then lock up. Basically harassing lonely people and ruining their lives in the name of security theater. I think people around me, at least, are more scared of mass shootings by my neighbors now than they ever were of people these anti-terrorism programs were actually built to defend against—namely, muslims (at least here in the US, i'm sure australia has its own issues). EDIT: wording, done editing.

mhh__ 2y ago
I think the count dankula (guy who taught his dog to do a Nazi salute) case in the UK is a pretty good example of this although on a lesser scale than terrorism charges The guy (a clown, not genuine problem afaict) makes bad joke, gov goes after him for being offensive, he's now radicalized against a state that has clearly abused him.
- altruios 2y ago
  > he's now radicalized now?!?! Putting the cart before the horse... Nazis are a weird subject to joke about. If they are the butt of the joke - being made fun of for their ridiculousness - that's okay. Teaching a dog to make the nazi salute doesn't meet that threshold for me. To me, that's already radicalized behavior masked as "it's just a joke bro, don't get so worked up"... This is the kind of 'joke' that's only 'funny' to other nazi. Shoving nazism everywhere you can and laughing at other people's discomfort isn't the behavior of a comic: it's the behavior of a nazi.
duxup 2y ago
It's probably not a great resume builder to say "Decided not to move forward." on some things. Maybe it should be.
Peteragain 2y ago
Yep. The Australian term is "measurement dysfunction" - measure something people do, and it becomes the only thing they do. It's a generic principle - often tragic when applied to politicians and law enforcement.

seattle_spring 2y ago

Isn’t it a good thing that we’re stopping mentally ill kids from shooting up stuff before it happens? (and no, I’m not saying autism automatically means mental illness or danger to society, so go ahead and save that outrage for someone else)

zbsksvsmd 2y ago
if you stop something before it happens, no crime has been committed.
- hk__2 2y ago
  > if you stop something before it happens, no crime has been committed. Attempting to kill people is a crime in most jurisdictions, even if someone stops you before you actually do it.
- kube-system 2y ago
  Planning crimes, is in itself, often criminal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchoate_offense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inchoate_offense
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  Classic “engineers pretend to understand the law” logic.
wizzwizz4 2y ago
Then what are you saying? It's clearly not commentary on the article. > As the court order overturning the criminal charges noted, officers deliberately steered Carrick away from anything that would have helped him and towards actions that would have seen the rest of his life destroyed. > The community would not expect law enforcement officers to encourage a 13-14 year old child towards racial hatred, distrust of police and violent extremism, encouraging the child’s fixation on ISIS,” magistrate Lesley Fleming said in the decision.
- jrussino 2y ago

itsmemattchung 2y ago

According to the article, once the case was tossed out by the judge, "Deputy Commissioner Krissy Barrett apparently felt the officers might possibly feel bad about what they’d done, so she took the time to assure them that they were still a valuable part of the AFP’s radicalization program Joint Counter-Terrorism Task Force": “It is really important to note that this was a very difficult and complex investigation for everyone involved, and one which threw up many challenges,” she said in the email. “I recognise and thank everyone involved for their tenacity, professionalism and commitment to duty. “I also use this opportunity to acknowledge the fantastic work that our covert online operatives do, under very difficult circumstances, to keep the community safe.”