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…and I am sure I can also buy a boneless chicken breast from the other grocery store across the street from my preferred store, but I don’t like their retail la

…and I am sure I can also buy a boneless chicken breast from the other grocery store across the street from my preferred store, but I don’t like their retail layout so i don’t shop there. Just because that other store exists and sells a similar product doesn’t mean I have to shop there, even if other people prefer that store.

alt227 2y ago
You didnt say you prefered the apple ecosystem, you specifically said you got gains from using it, inferring that other platforms dont give the same advantages. If you agree that the gains you get are also available elsewhere to people who prefer other platforms, then I objectively apologise and retract my statement.
- dagmx 2y ago
  What if the gains are not on the other platforms? You don’t know what gains they have that they care about that you don’t. To extend their grocery store analogy, the layout is a gain to them. You may not care, but it is tangible to some. Your comment reads like you’re saying “all platforms must be considered equal or you find offence” but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. Someone else’s choices and priorities are not a reflection on you as a person or your choices. What if they care about AppleScript? Nothing else has that. Or if they care about running Logic because there’s some unique plugin there?
  - alt227 2y ago
    > What if the gains are not on the other platforms? All platforms can do everything. They are all just computers, you just have to learn how to do it. Everything else here is subjective, which I think we agree on. > but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. No I'm not quite the opposite. All platforms are equal if you put the time and efffort into finding the ways to do things you want to. After that, the preference on which you would like to use is subjective. To clarify definition, needs are not subjective but opinions are.
    - dagmx 2y ago
      Opinions are subjective by definition. Do not confuse opinions and facts. And the idea that “all platforms meet your needs if you put in enough effort and time ” is flawed because that time and effort is part of the needs. Again, to take their grocery store analogy: the layout doesn’t change the capability of the store. But it does provide them with the ability to get things done sooner, faster and with less cognitive load. User experience matters more than I think you acknowledge.
      - alt227 2y ago
        I see your point, but I have been shown time and time again that User experience is basically just practice. People can and do change all the time. Humans instinctively stick with what they know, but in reality most people could be more efficient by learning things outside of their comfort zone. The few people that do this are rewrded greatly by having multiple strings to their bow, and being adaptive to many environments. Those that stick with they know are super efficient in their own environment, but take them out of that and they invariably complain that they could be better if they had the tools they know.
        dagmx 2y ago
        With all due respect, this is a very “stick your head in the ground” attitude about user experience. User experience matters and it’s not just about adapting.
        alt227 2y ago
        In my experience its all about adapting, and the people that dont are the ones who have their heads stuck in the ground and get left behind. But we can agree to disagree, thats fine. Thankyou for the respect :)
- kcplate 2y ago
  Are their alternatives? Maybe. I have no idea how they measure up because I don’t use them and wouldn’t comment about alternatives because it was not germane to my point.
  - alt227 2y ago
    > I have no idea how they measure up because I don’t use them Then I am curious, in your orignal statemnt you said you get gains from using their ecosystem. Gains over what exactly?
    - kcplate 2y ago
      Time. Small things that add up to big savings of time every day. My watch unlocks my MBP when I walk up to it. Maybe I am typing a note with the mbp, drawing a diagram with my iPad, taking a snapshot of a whiteboard with my iPhone, all of that simultaneously into the same note file—zero consolidation needed later on. I have set up productivity shortcuts that work on all my devices doing the same thing but in an appropriate manner/UX for the specific device. I can manage text messages from whichever device is in my hands at any given moment. My AirPods Pro2s magically shift to whichever device has my focus at the moment. My iPad can act as a second monitor to my MBP, or simply share the keyboard/mouse. I connect to a WiFi on one device, all of them know that password and can connect as well with merely a click. I can upgrade a device, login with the same ID, and lay it down and within moments it’s configured with all my preferences and is ready to go. There are probably another half dozen to a dozen things that I do daily that are seamlessly integrated just because of the ecosystem itself. They are basically working together so well that I don’t even notice the integration anymore. I have 5 different devices that feel like one. Could I do all these things with other manufacturers…probably. However, all these things I can do with Apple by just logging in to my devices with an Apple ID. I don’t know of any other solution or combination of hardware/software that provides that level of out of the box ecosystem just off a single login.

alt227 2y ago

You didnt say you prefered the apple ecosystem, you specifically said you got gains from using it, inferring that other platforms dont give the same advantages. If you agree that the gains you get are also available elsewhere to people who prefer other platforms, then I objectively apologise and retract my statement.

dagmx 2y ago
What if the gains are not on the other platforms? You don’t know what gains they have that they care about that you don’t. To extend their grocery store analogy, the layout is a gain to them. You may not care, but it is tangible to some. Your comment reads like you’re saying “all platforms must be considered equal or you find offence” but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. Someone else’s choices and priorities are not a reflection on you as a person or your choices. What if they care about AppleScript? Nothing else has that. Or if they care about running Logic because there’s some unique plugin there?
- alt227 2y ago
  > What if the gains are not on the other platforms? All platforms can do everything. They are all just computers, you just have to learn how to do it. Everything else here is subjective, which I think we agree on. > but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. No I'm not quite the opposite. All platforms are equal if you put the time and efffort into finding the ways to do things you want to. After that, the preference on which you would like to use is subjective. To clarify definition, needs are not subjective but opinions are.
  - dagmx 2y ago
    Opinions are subjective by definition. Do not confuse opinions and facts. And the idea that “all platforms meet your needs if you put in enough effort and time ” is flawed because that time and effort is part of the needs. Again, to take their grocery store analogy: the layout doesn’t change the capability of the store. But it does provide them with the ability to get things done sooner, faster and with less cognitive load. User experience matters more than I think you acknowledge.
    - alt227 2y ago
      I see your point, but I have been shown time and time again that User experience is basically just practice. People can and do change all the time. Humans instinctively stick with what they know, but in reality most people could be more efficient by learning things outside of their comfort zone. The few people that do this are rewrded greatly by having multiple strings to their bow, and being adaptive to many environments. Those that stick with they know are super efficient in their own environment, but take them out of that and they invariably complain that they could be better if they had the tools they know.
      - dagmx 2y ago
        With all due respect, this is a very “stick your head in the ground” attitude about user experience. User experience matters and it’s not just about adapting.
        alt227 2y ago
        In my experience its all about adapting, and the people that dont are the ones who have their heads stuck in the ground and get left behind. But we can agree to disagree, thats fine. Thankyou for the respect :)
kcplate 2y ago
Are their alternatives? Maybe. I have no idea how they measure up because I don’t use them and wouldn’t comment about alternatives because it was not germane to my point.
- alt227 2y ago
  > I have no idea how they measure up because I don’t use them Then I am curious, in your orignal statemnt you said you get gains from using their ecosystem. Gains over what exactly?
  - kcplate 2y ago
    Time. Small things that add up to big savings of time every day. My watch unlocks my MBP when I walk up to it. Maybe I am typing a note with the mbp, drawing a diagram with my iPad, taking a snapshot of a whiteboard with my iPhone, all of that simultaneously into the same note file—zero consolidation needed later on. I have set up productivity shortcuts that work on all my devices doing the same thing but in an appropriate manner/UX for the specific device. I can manage text messages from whichever device is in my hands at any given moment. My AirPods Pro2s magically shift to whichever device has my focus at the moment. My iPad can act as a second monitor to my MBP, or simply share the keyboard/mouse. I connect to a WiFi on one device, all of them know that password and can connect as well with merely a click. I can upgrade a device, login with the same ID, and lay it down and within moments it’s configured with all my preferences and is ready to go. There are probably another half dozen to a dozen things that I do daily that are seamlessly integrated just because of the ecosystem itself. They are basically working together so well that I don’t even notice the integration anymore. I have 5 different devices that feel like one. Could I do all these things with other manufacturers…probably. However, all these things I can do with Apple by just logging in to my devices with an Apple ID. I don’t know of any other solution or combination of hardware/software that provides that level of out of the box ecosystem just off a single login.