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They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. The intensity at which they do that has accelerated, but I think the rate a

They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. The intensity at which they do that has accelerated, but I think the rate at which they are doing this over time has increased consistently. It's been a great business model, and I'm not in anyway claiming people don't really truly love using their products. To be fair, the same writing is on the wall for Google (they're just bad at it but will figure it out eventually).

robenkleene 2y ago
> They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. Again these could use evidence/examples. But there also tangential to examples I was giving, personally I don't factor in lock-in or "feigning superiority", I just care if the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing, and then becoming worse at that is a recent thing.
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  Since you could look at what they've done over the years as easily as I, I'll be brief: They make Apple-only software that only work with other Apple devices, like Logic Pro, FCP, GarageBand, XCode, Safari (though it used to work on Windows), etc. Which is all fine and expected, but is part of the lock in. But then there are the protocols like Handoff, AirDrop, Continuity, iCloud, iMessage, FaceTime, and more. AirTags were a security nightmare for most of the world until they allowed Android some access to the protocol. Then there are the Draconian App Store policies that ended up getting them in "trouble" with the EU. Quick example for feigning superiority: "Mac vs PC". Before those commercials "PC" just meant any desktop, but their (absolutely genius!) marketing figured out a way to differentiate while dissing Windows. > the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing I'm positive there have been and still are really great software experiences and paradigms built by Apple; I just get immensely frustrated trying to navigate them (flip your mouse upside and then try to use it... that is an extreme example of the frustration I experience navigating most Apple software -- it comes down to just not being used to it). All that to say: we're not really thinking about the same aspects of the company, since I'm really just on the periphery, and you're in the midst of it.
  - robenkleene 2y ago
    Yeah all of these are perfectly fair things to dislike Apple about, and I agree they haven't changed much on these fronts. I was just pointing out there are areas they've changed dramatically, and I only gave one example, I could provide a bunch more. Personally I don't care much about Apples marketing (literally hard to imagine something I could possibly care less about), and don't even care too much about iOS App Store shenanigans (for the most part, I think Apples approach is a decent fit for the type of device mobile devices are). But I do care a lot about Apple being worse for media creation today, and the neglect of AppKit for example, and the overall direction of macOS, and those are relatively recent changes.

robenkleene 2y ago

> They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. Again these could use evidence/examples. But there also tangential to examples I was giving, personally I don't factor in lock-in or "feigning superiority", I just care if the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing, and then becoming worse at that is a recent thing.

davidmurdoch 2y ago
Since you could look at what they've done over the years as easily as I, I'll be brief: They make Apple-only software that only work with other Apple devices, like Logic Pro, FCP, GarageBand, XCode, Safari (though it used to work on Windows), etc. Which is all fine and expected, but is part of the lock in. But then there are the protocols like Handoff, AirDrop, Continuity, iCloud, iMessage, FaceTime, and more. AirTags were a security nightmare for most of the world until they allowed Android some access to the protocol. Then there are the Draconian App Store policies that ended up getting them in "trouble" with the EU. Quick example for feigning superiority: "Mac vs PC". Before those commercials "PC" just meant any desktop, but their (absolutely genius!) marketing figured out a way to differentiate while dissing Windows. > the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing I'm positive there have been and still are really great software experiences and paradigms built by Apple; I just get immensely frustrated trying to navigate them (flip your mouse upside and then try to use it... that is an extreme example of the frustration I experience navigating most Apple software -- it comes down to just not being used to it). All that to say: we're not really thinking about the same aspects of the company, since I'm really just on the periphery, and you're in the midst of it.
- robenkleene 2y ago
  Yeah all of these are perfectly fair things to dislike Apple about, and I agree they haven't changed much on these fronts. I was just pointing out there are areas they've changed dramatically, and I only gave one example, I could provide a bunch more. Personally I don't care much about Apples marketing (literally hard to imagine something I could possibly care less about), and don't even care too much about iOS App Store shenanigans (for the most part, I think Apples approach is a decent fit for the type of device mobile devices are). But I do care a lot about Apple being worse for media creation today, and the neglect of AppKit for example, and the overall direction of macOS, and those are relatively recent changes.