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If there's one consumer base where the consumers will mindlessly buy every new product despite the price or the fact that it's the same thing as the previous mo

If there's one consumer base where the consumers will mindlessly buy every new product despite the price or the fact that it's the same thing as the previous model, it's Apple. It's a brand for people with money who want to flex on the poor, not a brand for people who put thought into their purchases or who care about tech. You said it already, it's about status.

kcplate 2y ago
Yeah, flexing on the poor is definitely why I buy their products, it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem.
- alt227 2y ago
  > the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem These gains are also available elsewhere. You are not superior, nor do you have access to superior things or ways of working, just because you buy Apple. That is the success of the Apple marketing team making you think that way.
  - robenkleene 2y ago
    Excel, Adobe suite, Cinema 4D, and Ableton Live/Max don't run on Linux, just for the short list of applications I wouldn't want to give up. So presumably you mean Windows? But then you lose AppleScript, Unix-by-default, and global Emacs bindings. Doesn't seem like a great trade off to me, so I'm curious what exactly you'd suggest here?
    - taylodl 2y ago
      They have nothing to suggest because they have no clue how actual users that aren't like themselves use Apple products. You have ably demonstrated this fact.
      - alt227 2y ago
        Dont assume, it makes an ass out of u and me.
    - alt227 2y ago
      WSL
      - robenkleene 2y ago
        Curious if you'd elaborate this statement, e.g., WSL is definitely a potential solution to one of the items I brought up, but given what I've stated about the advantages of macOS, would you actually go as far as to say it's a better or comparable experience on Windows? I'd love to hear your argument if so.
        alt227 2y ago
        > would you actually go as far as to say it's a better or comparable experience on Windows? This is obviously a subjective debate now, its all personal opinion. I would love to have that debate calmly and intelligently, but I feel here is not the place. Maybe we will meet in another place and time and be able to figure out what the other likes and prefers in their OS choice :)
        robenkleene 2y ago
        Haha, fair enough, although I do think there is still some interesting objective points, e.g., the NVIDIA/CUDA support is a clear advantage for Windows today, and on the flipside macOS is still the place where software happens first (e.g., Excel, Photoshop, Illustrator, Sketch, Lightroom all were launched first for Mac).
        alt227 2y ago
        I wasnt aware that Excel was first written for Mac. Thanks for teaching me something today :)
        robenkleene 2y ago
        PowerPoint too!
        2y ago
    - Vampiero 2y ago
      Yes, because all the people out there buying iPhones do so for the... Emacs keybindings. Obviously. That's why the brand is so popular.
      - robenkleene 2y ago
        It's amazing breadth to make a fantastic product for both the most and least technically minded. If you wanted to to summarize the reason for their ferocious brand loyalty I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a better summary then that.
  - kcplate 2y ago
    …and I am sure I can also buy a boneless chicken breast from the other grocery store across the street from my preferred store, but I don’t like their retail layout so i don’t shop there. Just because that other store exists and sells a similar product doesn’t mean I have to shop there, even if other people prefer that store.
    - alt227 2y ago
      You didnt say you prefered the apple ecosystem, you specifically said you got gains from using it, inferring that other platforms dont give the same advantages. If you agree that the gains you get are also available elsewhere to people who prefer other platforms, then I objectively apologise and retract my statement.
      - dagmx 2y ago
        What if the gains are not on the other platforms? You don’t know what gains they have that they care about that you don’t. To extend their grocery store analogy, the layout is a gain to them. You may not care, but it is tangible to some. Your comment reads like you’re saying “all platforms must be considered equal or you find offence” but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. Someone else’s choices and priorities are not a reflection on you as a person or your choices. What if they care about AppleScript? Nothing else has that. Or if they care about running Logic because there’s some unique plugin there?
        alt227 2y ago
        > What if the gains are not on the other platforms? All platforms can do everything. They are all just computers, you just have to learn how to do it. Everything else here is subjective, which I think we agree on. > but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. No I'm not quite the opposite. All platforms are equal if you put the time and efffort into finding the ways to do things you want to. After that, the preference on which you would like to use is subjective. To clarify definition, needs are not subjective but opinions are.
  - stetrain 2y ago
    > You are not superior, nor do you have access to superior things or ways of working, just because you buy Apple. They didn't say they were or did. They said that they personally get value out of that product ecosystem. Me choosing a product because I find value in it doesn't mean that I am calling you inferior for not buying that product. It's not a zero-sum game. You're allowed to be happy with the value you find in the products you choose as well!
    - alt227 2y ago
      > They said that they personally get value out of that product ecosystem No they didnt, they said 'quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem'. Inferring they dont get those gains from other platforms
      - stetrain 2y ago
        They said the gains I get which is personal and subjective. They didn't say anything about personally being superior to other people.
        alt227 2y ago
        Then they can clarify that statement in a reply and I will apologise, like an amicable exchange should happen. It doesnt need other people chiming in trying to clarify what someone else was trying to say.
        stetrain 2y ago
        My apologies, I will no longer attempt to clarify your mis-reading of comments.
        alt227 2y ago
        Given you an upvote, thanks for the apology :)
      - 2y ago
AlexandrB 2y ago
Thai kind of opinion is pretty common and has been around since before the iPhone, when Apple's computers were considered overpriced luxury items to flex on the poor. Heck, I had this opinion back in 2008 or so. The problem is that it's a thought terminating cliche. Once you've assigned apple customers into the rich/dumb/cultist category you become blind to the actual reasons why Apple is successful. My own take, after using Apple stuff for 15 years now, is it's the attention to detail. It still shocks me that macOS has better support for using EMacs style text shortcuts (^A, ^E, ^K, etc) in basically any applications text field than Linux does.
- fluoridation 2y ago
  "Gravity is caused by the bending of space-time" is a thought-terminating cliché. Once you've assigned gravity to the space-time-bend category you become blind to the actual reasons why things fall down. There is such a thing as a satisfying explanation. Personally, I like Apple's hardware in general. The 2005 Mac Pros in particular are beautiful machines, possibly the nicest-looking desktop computers I've seen, inside and outside. I would still not pay what Apple asks for, when for the same money I could buy a more powerful non-Apple computer. That leads me to conclude that the people who buy Apple products have more money than me and care more about aesthetics and less about performance than me.
  - paulmd 2y ago
    Apple M3 silicon has about 3-4x the perf/w in light workloads as the leading AMD chips on 5nm, despite a slight node disadvantage, let alone the comparisons against generic android phone SOCs. This is a huge part of what gives them their battery life - it’s not the OS, it’s not the node, it’s not the accelerators, it’s that they pull 1/3 the power running a browser/electron app or a word processor as x86 does. https://i.imgur.com/Kcwo1OM.png https://i.imgur.com/Kcwo1OM.png https://i.imgur.com/IP6vBqk.png https://i.imgur.com/IP6vBqk.png https://i.imgur.com/1pTFnRj.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/1pTFnRj.jpeg Again, you’ve volunteered to self-identify as someone who is doing precisely what GP said: you’ve made your little box and you’ve put people into it and you’ve closed your mind to any alternative possibilities.
mcphage 2y ago
> It's a brand for people with money who want to flex on the poor, not a brand for people who put thought into their purchases or who care about tech. I’ll be honest, I didn’t think that this was an actual position that people honestly believed beyond 18 year old edgelords.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- dagmx 2y ago
  Unfortunately, I don’t think a lot of people mature past that stage in their lives.
- RichardCA 2y ago
  It's been around since the original Mac came out. https://youtu.be/cV_RLmuoCkE https://youtu.be/cV_RLmuoCkE
  - alt227 2y ago
    Wow this ad is incredible, and just as relevant today as it was 40 years ago!
dvfjsdhgfv 2y ago
> It's a brand for people with money who want to flex on the poor. As a user of Apple devices I agree with the first part (unfortunately - their RAM and NVMes are much more expensive than anybody elses) but not with the second. I live in Europe where every second person I meet has an Apple device, so it's hard to perceive it as a status symbol.

kcplate 2y ago

Yeah, flexing on the poor is definitely why I buy their products, it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem.

alt227 2y ago
> the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem These gains are also available elsewhere. You are not superior, nor do you have access to superior things or ways of working, just because you buy Apple. That is the success of the Apple marketing team making you think that way.
- robenkleene 2y ago
  Excel, Adobe suite, Cinema 4D, and Ableton Live/Max don't run on Linux, just for the short list of applications I wouldn't want to give up. So presumably you mean Windows? But then you lose AppleScript, Unix-by-default, and global Emacs bindings. Doesn't seem like a great trade off to me, so I'm curious what exactly you'd suggest here?
  - taylodl 2y ago
    They have nothing to suggest because they have no clue how actual users that aren't like themselves use Apple products. You have ably demonstrated this fact.
    - alt227 2y ago
      Dont assume, it makes an ass out of u and me.
  - alt227 2y ago
    WSL
    - robenkleene 2y ago
      Curious if you'd elaborate this statement, e.g., WSL is definitely a potential solution to one of the items I brought up, but given what I've stated about the advantages of macOS, would you actually go as far as to say it's a better or comparable experience on Windows? I'd love to hear your argument if so.
      - alt227 2y ago
        > would you actually go as far as to say it's a better or comparable experience on Windows? This is obviously a subjective debate now, its all personal opinion. I would love to have that debate calmly and intelligently, but I feel here is not the place. Maybe we will meet in another place and time and be able to figure out what the other likes and prefers in their OS choice :)
        robenkleene 2y ago
        Haha, fair enough, although I do think there is still some interesting objective points, e.g., the NVIDIA/CUDA support is a clear advantage for Windows today, and on the flipside macOS is still the place where software happens first (e.g., Excel, Photoshop, Illustrator, Sketch, Lightroom all were launched first for Mac).
        alt227 2y ago
        I wasnt aware that Excel was first written for Mac. Thanks for teaching me something today :)
        robenkleene 2y ago
        PowerPoint too!
        2y ago
  - Vampiero 2y ago
    Yes, because all the people out there buying iPhones do so for the... Emacs keybindings. Obviously. That's why the brand is so popular.
    - robenkleene 2y ago
      It's amazing breadth to make a fantastic product for both the most and least technically minded. If you wanted to to summarize the reason for their ferocious brand loyalty I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a better summary then that.
- kcplate 2y ago
  …and I am sure I can also buy a boneless chicken breast from the other grocery store across the street from my preferred store, but I don’t like their retail layout so i don’t shop there. Just because that other store exists and sells a similar product doesn’t mean I have to shop there, even if other people prefer that store.
  - alt227 2y ago
    You didnt say you prefered the apple ecosystem, you specifically said you got gains from using it, inferring that other platforms dont give the same advantages. If you agree that the gains you get are also available elsewhere to people who prefer other platforms, then I objectively apologise and retract my statement.
    - dagmx 2y ago
      What if the gains are not on the other platforms? You don’t know what gains they have that they care about that you don’t. To extend their grocery store analogy, the layout is a gain to them. You may not care, but it is tangible to some. Your comment reads like you’re saying “all platforms must be considered equal or you find offence” but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. Someone else’s choices and priorities are not a reflection on you as a person or your choices. What if they care about AppleScript? Nothing else has that. Or if they care about running Logic because there’s some unique plugin there?
      - alt227 2y ago
        > What if the gains are not on the other platforms? All platforms can do everything. They are all just computers, you just have to learn how to do it. Everything else here is subjective, which I think we agree on. > but you’re ignoring subjective needs and opinions. No I'm not quite the opposite. All platforms are equal if you put the time and efffort into finding the ways to do things you want to. After that, the preference on which you would like to use is subjective. To clarify definition, needs are not subjective but opinions are.
- stetrain 2y ago
  > You are not superior, nor do you have access to superior things or ways of working, just because you buy Apple. They didn't say they were or did. They said that they personally get value out of that product ecosystem. Me choosing a product because I find value in it doesn't mean that I am calling you inferior for not buying that product. It's not a zero-sum game. You're allowed to be happy with the value you find in the products you choose as well!
  - alt227 2y ago
    > They said that they personally get value out of that product ecosystem No they didnt, they said 'quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem'. Inferring they dont get those gains from other platforms
    - stetrain 2y ago
      They said the gains I get which is personal and subjective. They didn't say anything about personally being superior to other people.
      - alt227 2y ago
        Then they can clarify that statement in a reply and I will apologise, like an amicable exchange should happen. It doesnt need other people chiming in trying to clarify what someone else was trying to say.
        stetrain 2y ago
        My apologies, I will no longer attempt to clarify your mis-reading of comments.
        alt227 2y ago
        Given you an upvote, thanks for the apology :)
    - 2y ago

AlexandrB 2y ago

Thai kind of opinion is pretty common and has been around since before the iPhone, when Apple's computers were considered overpriced luxury items to flex on the poor. Heck, I had this opinion back in 2008 or so. The problem is that it's a thought terminating cliche. Once you've assigned apple customers into the rich/dumb/cultist category you become blind to the actual reasons why Apple is successful. My own take, after using Apple stuff for 15 years now, is it's the attention to detail. It still shocks me that macOS has better support for using EMacs style text shortcuts (^A, ^E, ^K, etc) in basically any applications text field than Linux does.

fluoridation 2y ago
"Gravity is caused by the bending of space-time" is a thought-terminating cliché. Once you've assigned gravity to the space-time-bend category you become blind to the actual reasons why things fall down. There is such a thing as a satisfying explanation. Personally, I like Apple's hardware in general. The 2005 Mac Pros in particular are beautiful machines, possibly the nicest-looking desktop computers I've seen, inside and outside. I would still not pay what Apple asks for, when for the same money I could buy a more powerful non-Apple computer. That leads me to conclude that the people who buy Apple products have more money than me and care more about aesthetics and less about performance than me.
- paulmd 2y ago
  Apple M3 silicon has about 3-4x the perf/w in light workloads as the leading AMD chips on 5nm, despite a slight node disadvantage, let alone the comparisons against generic android phone SOCs. This is a huge part of what gives them their battery life - it’s not the OS, it’s not the node, it’s not the accelerators, it’s that they pull 1/3 the power running a browser/electron app or a word processor as x86 does. https://i.imgur.com/Kcwo1OM.png https://i.imgur.com/Kcwo1OM.png https://i.imgur.com/IP6vBqk.png https://i.imgur.com/IP6vBqk.png https://i.imgur.com/1pTFnRj.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/1pTFnRj.jpeg Again, you’ve volunteered to self-identify as someone who is doing precisely what GP said: you’ve made your little box and you’ve put people into it and you’ve closed your mind to any alternative possibilities.

mcphage 2y ago

> It's a brand for people with money who want to flex on the poor, not a brand for people who put thought into their purchases or who care about tech. I’ll be honest, I didn’t think that this was an actual position that people honestly believed beyond 18 year old edgelords.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dagmx 2y ago
Unfortunately, I don’t think a lot of people mature past that stage in their lives.
RichardCA 2y ago
It's been around since the original Mac came out. https://youtu.be/cV_RLmuoCkE https://youtu.be/cV_RLmuoCkE
- alt227 2y ago
  Wow this ad is incredible, and just as relevant today as it was 40 years ago!

dvfjsdhgfv 2y ago

> It's a brand for people with money who want to flex on the poor. As a user of Apple devices I agree with the first part (unfortunately - their RAM and NVMes are much more expensive than anybody elses) but not with the second. I live in Europe where every second person I meet has an Apple device, so it's hard to perceive it as a status symbol.