9 ms·

Is this the slow decline of the Apple "cult"?

39 points by goranmoomin 2y ago

davidmurdoch 2y ago
The article makes claims that Apple has changed, which is why there is a decline in fanboy praise for the company. But from the outside it just looks like business as usual.
- wslh 2y ago
  Yes, it seems like they don't understand than basically fans follows the brand no matter where it goes, and developers will continue to develop there if there is a market (including fans!), even if they are not fans.
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    It's a vicious cycle
- Quothling 2y ago
  I think this depends on how far you go back. I think Apple has increasingly become a "service" company rather than a company which sells hardware. I do think that the old mantra: "to sell hardware you need to write software" is still true, but I'd personally argue that the main reason Apple has the "easiest to use out of the box" software in 2024 is because their competition sucks. I'm probably an Apple fanboy. I switched to Apple in 2012 after I stopped enjoying the whole "tinkering" part which made running Linux so fun. These days, with the ever increasing lock-in (and price hikes on cloud services) I'd like to get out. Further increased by the fact that Apple doesn't make a small phone (I have relatively small hands). The issue is that I don't really want to deal with Google either. I also don't want to deal with not having the Apple or Google stores on my phone because most of the apps I use (like banking, national IDs, healthcare, tickets for public transportation and others) aren't available outside of those. If I'm on iOS it's still easier to just have the smallest MacBook Air, than to bother getting something else and then setting up synchronisation and so on. But I don't think Apple is "cool" anymore. Not that I disagree with you completely, they were always "evil" but at least they used to make cool stuff.
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    I don't agree that they write good or intuitive (easiest to use) software, but that's just me. I've hated nearly all of their software paradigms (while drooling over their hardware), except for the pinnacle of human achievement: the iPods with the click wheel. But I think the Apple "cult" and the increasing lock in to the ecosystem is party if a negative feedback loop: developers often make apps only for Apple, or make it for Apple first, or just half-ass their Android/Windows versions. So the lock in is encouraged by Apple and amplified by developers. But the while time they are paying for the privilege of the wall garden (and before people get confused again, "walled garden" is just a way of saying "pretty prison", it is not meant to imply you are hanging out at a 5-star all-inclusive resort).
    - robenkleene 2y ago
      > I've hated nearly all of their software paradigms Saying statements like this without provide evidence or examples is pointless. E.G., have you read this article, do you disagree with it? https://daringfireball.net/2004/04/spray_on_usability https://daringfireball.net/2004/04/spray_on_usability > But the while time they are paying for the privilege of the wall garden Again this could use further extrapolation, in vacuum I think we can agree a walled garden is worse for developers than an open platform (for users I'd say that balance is a lot less clear, but if I try to make that argument some folks completely lose it). But we don't live in a vacuum, so I'd say most developers who build for Apple platforms do so because they prefer the toolchain, and that trumps the value of an open platform for them. I used to develop for Apple platforms, and I still think the toolchain is better than anything else I've ever used, and it's not close (I like the debugger integration, the memory tools, and Instruments).
      - davidmurdoch 2y ago
        > Saying statements like this without provide evidence or examples is pointless. Evidence of an opinion? I don't think you understand how opinions work.
        2y ago
- robenkleene 2y ago
  This is absolutely categorically not true, Apple use to prioritize the advantages of macOS, which made it a great platform for the big creative tasks, like media creation and editing, and programming (programming is actually one of the areas macOS has taken the least number of hits). Here's Adam Lisagor talking about old Apple (original release of Final Cut Pro) vs new Apple (release of Final Cut Pro X) (https://lonelysandwich.com/post/7033868135/fcp-the-new-class https://lonelysandwich.com/post/7033868135/fcp-the-new-class): > When Apple pushed FCP to the industry pros five or six years ago, they did some hardcore outreach. They brought out Walter Murch, for God’s sake. The man cut Cold Mountain on it for God’s sake. They evangelized by showing what had been done, not by what could be done. But this time out, there is no evangelizing. No Murch. They do a dog and pony with vapid car footage or a Pixar trailer or something. This is meaningless to industry pros who need to know one thing, and it’s a very simple thing: can I edit a _____ on it? You know what I want to know? Can Louie CK edit his show on FCP X? Would he? Would he be happy to do it? Would he speak to a crowd of people about the experience? I could go on in countless ways the company has changed, this is just one axis.
  - davidmurdoch 2y ago
    They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. The intensity at which they do that has accelerated, but I think the rate at which they are doing this over time has increased consistently. It's been a great business model, and I'm not in anyway claiming people don't really truly love using their products. To be fair, the same writing is on the wall for Google (they're just bad at it but will figure it out eventually).
    - robenkleene 2y ago
      > They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. Again these could use evidence/examples. But there also tangential to examples I was giving, personally I don't factor in lock-in or "feigning superiority", I just care if the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing, and then becoming worse at that is a recent thing.
Forgeties79 2y ago
Maybe this is just me but I feel like the age of endless praise/camping out for Apple products ended a solid decade ago.
- pyinstallwoes 2y ago
  It ended ever since they stopped innovating. They only incrementally improve the status quo now.
  - badcarbine 2y ago
    [dead]
  - minkles 2y ago
    I hear this a lot. The products are basically on the top of the maturity curve now so incremental improvements is all it is likely to be for a long time. Some of the big "innovations", an example being folding screens, aren't really viable at the moment and possibly never and Apple are quite conservative on their engineering. This is a good thing for those of us who see these as utility devices mostly. In fact most of the time I'd rather people just left stuff the fuck alone.
    - Jensson 2y ago
      > The products are basically on the top of the maturity curve People said that about phones in 2006 as well, they had looked the same for a while then, why would you want more than a phone that can call, make messages, and has a built in calendar?
      - minkles 2y ago
        No they didn't. They sold like crazy which is why everyone has them now.
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  Same. When the iPhone was still relatively new and every art kid had a MacBook pro and Apple was innovating and coming out with new things, it seems like there was more excitement.
m_a_g 2y ago
Hug of death?
limuc 2y ago
https://archive.is/qAWvK https://archive.is/qAWvK as site is not/very slowly loading.
wwilim 2y ago
I feel it's partly because the devices are now actually far superior to competitors thanks to M series processors, so owning a MacBook is no longer just a matter of being hip. This means many Apple buyers are now people who just want a bloody powerful laptop, rather than people drawn to the tasteful design who would be more likely to preach about it. The power buyers don't need to preach, every chart tells you what they would. The Macbook Pro has become the Top Right Messi of the laptop game.
- alt227 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - id00 2y ago
    ... or the weight, or the battery life, or the assembly quality. And if it's all good then you have to deal with ads and spyware of Windows 11 or with one of many linux distros that can be good for some but still too far from delivering cohesive and stable experience for mainstream users
    - alt227 2y ago
      OP was saying about how apple laptops are the fastest thing in the world. I disputed that. Where do your comments come in relating to this argument? Seems like you are just spouting random subjective stuff just to defend macbooks.
      - stetrain 2y ago
        > OP was saying about how apple laptops are the fastest thing in the world. No, they did not. There are more axes to a good powerful laptop computer than maximum speed.
        alt227 2y ago
        Really? I personally dont see how the power of a laptop has anything to do with things like weight, or contruction. Please tell me what these other axis of power are? In my opinion computer power means one thing, how fast it can perform a workload.
firesteelrain 2y ago
Apple appears to not innovated significantly beyond the Job’s original iPhone release. It’s small incremental improvements to the platform however not the major shakeup that occurred with the original iPhone. It’s not a slow decline of the cult. People still get excited for new iPhone releases. It’s just so prolific now and you can get it from places like Target that no need to camp out anymore. It’s basically become an appliance.
- msabalau 2y ago
  The first iPhone was fine, but it was the second generation and the app store that actually delivered a "real" smart phone. The retina display in the iPhone 4 may have been an incremental improvement, but it wasn't a "small" one. But. yeah, decreasingly minor improvements after 2010. The passionate Apple 'cult' of geeky superfans existed long before the iPhone, even the before the Mac, and it continued for very long time. What the author is noting is that well over a decade of minor enhancements, rent-seeking, and "innovation shaped objects" like the Vision Pro are finally killing off the this geeky crowd of superfans. Apple will continue to make tons of money as an upper middle class lifestyle brand, hawking their talismans at Target. But that is irrelevant to the authors point. Apple doesn't need the super enthusiast "cult" anymore, and it's slowly fading away.
  - firesteelrain 2y ago
    Thanks for the perspective. I can see your point
josefresco 2y ago
"Rent-seeking Apple" might destroy the goodwill created by previously positive positions like: "Privacy Focused Apple" and before that "User Experience Apple". Once the iCloud tax starts climbing Apple might become the new AT&T in the eyes of the consumer.
bustling-noose 2y ago
I don’t think revenue is a good measure of ‘decline’. People have saturated their lives with devices over the last 4-5 years and iPads iPhones and watches and EarPods have reached a saturation point. So the revenues will not grow linearly anymore cause new owners of watches and EarPods are not getting added. There is no new device like the Apple watch to enter the ecosystem so revenues have stayed somewhat flat. This is if you think the cult is relevant to revenue. From what I know everyone and their dog on social media uses an iPhone Pro. Given the high usage and addiction of social media, the iPhone that shows 3 cameras on the back is still the gold standard of status. People thought (including me) that raising the price of the flagship to 1000$+ might affect sales but it didn’t. As long as Apple maintains its luxury, people will buy it no matter what you say about them. The problem is that unlike LVMH where margins are insane, Apple is still a tech company thriving on innovation. So unlike other luxury brands, Apple stock may not do as well as others. But if you think the cult is buying something else now, just open Instagram and count how many people have selfies with a pixel and thousands of followers (who are the part of cult). You’ll have a tough time spotting one.
- Vampiero 2y ago
  If there's one consumer base where the consumers will mindlessly buy every new product despite the price or the fact that it's the same thing as the previous model, it's Apple. It's a brand for people with money who want to flex on the poor, not a brand for people who put thought into their purchases or who care about tech. You said it already, it's about status.
  - kcplate 2y ago
    Yeah, flexing on the poor is definitely why I buy their products, it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem.
    - alt227 2y ago
      > the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem These gains are also available elsewhere. You are not superior, nor do you have access to superior things or ways of working, just because you buy Apple. That is the success of the Apple marketing team making you think that way.
fluoridation 2y ago
>Is the goal to turn into Microsoft, because this is how you turn into Microsoft. Duh. Well, indirectly. The goal of both is to grow, like gray goo, or cancer. Anything else is a secondary concern that can be sacrificed for the goal. No company wants to be the underdog, perpetually struggling for second place.
baal80spam 2y ago
We have a law for such articles, and the answer is: "No.".
beardyw 2y ago
Flagged - to no one's surprise.
ryandvm 2y ago
As an Android fan, I have to give Apple credit. They provide solid top-tier hardware and software, which Google does as well with the Pixel, but Apple also combines it with strong arm tactics to keep people inside the wall. No dirty trick is off limits, from ecosystem lock-in to green-icon bullying at school - anything to get you to buy an iPhone. Google doesn't really try to do this - mostly out of sheer incompetence I think. Look at Google's messaging strategy. They have the most popular web browser in the world by far. They could easily have bundled a decent, lightweight chat client into Chrome and they would have 80% worldwide installed base. Instead their messaging strategy has literally become an industry joke.
- fluoridation 2y ago
  >green-icon bullying at school I'm far from an Apple fan, but is that really Apple's fault?
  - alt227 2y ago
    They made no effort to help the issue, when they very easily could have.
    - fluoridation 2y ago
      Such as by doing...?
      - alt227 2y ago
        Making all bubbles green
        fluoridation 2y ago
        The point of the color is so the user knows whether a message is encrypted or not.
        2y ago
jacknews 2y ago
"The problems all stem from the business end of the company" Seems to be a recurring theme these days.
znpy 2y ago
> Apple’s always been a bit different, and they’ve often been the scrappy underdog who was barely surviving. Uhm... No? Apple has had a hard time in the nineties, but now it's been doing just fine for the last 15+ years (and in the last ten years it's been doing awesomely). Uh, this is why (in my opinion) apple fans are considered part of a cult: they have strong opinions that have no connections to reality.
mgarfias 2y ago
I’m just waiting for an alternative. I’d happy run a *nix on my desktop if I didn’t have to use X11 and could have real apps to run. I’m about to be forced to use windows for the first time in 20 years and I’m seriously dreading it. At the same time, I’m sick of apples stranglehold on the iPhone. It’s my phone, let me do what I want with it. I’ve tried using android stuff a bit (bought a Samsung tablet for obd2 stuff), and it left me wanting to scream and throw things. I miss my 04-08 Mac experience that didn’t suck. And don’t tell me the new stuff is more reliable - the other day I had to power cycle my m1max mbp as the keyboard stopped responding.

39 points by goranmoomin 2y ago

The article makes claims that Apple has changed, which is why there is a decline in fanboy praise for the company. But from the outside it just looks like business as usual.

wslh 2y ago
Yes, it seems like they don't understand than basically fans follows the brand no matter where it goes, and developers will continue to develop there if there is a market (including fans!), even if they are not fans.
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  It's a vicious cycle
Quothling 2y ago
I think this depends on how far you go back. I think Apple has increasingly become a "service" company rather than a company which sells hardware. I do think that the old mantra: "to sell hardware you need to write software" is still true, but I'd personally argue that the main reason Apple has the "easiest to use out of the box" software in 2024 is because their competition sucks. I'm probably an Apple fanboy. I switched to Apple in 2012 after I stopped enjoying the whole "tinkering" part which made running Linux so fun. These days, with the ever increasing lock-in (and price hikes on cloud services) I'd like to get out. Further increased by the fact that Apple doesn't make a small phone (I have relatively small hands). The issue is that I don't really want to deal with Google either. I also don't want to deal with not having the Apple or Google stores on my phone because most of the apps I use (like banking, national IDs, healthcare, tickets for public transportation and others) aren't available outside of those. If I'm on iOS it's still easier to just have the smallest MacBook Air, than to bother getting something else and then setting up synchronisation and so on. But I don't think Apple is "cool" anymore. Not that I disagree with you completely, they were always "evil" but at least they used to make cool stuff.
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  I don't agree that they write good or intuitive (easiest to use) software, but that's just me. I've hated nearly all of their software paradigms (while drooling over their hardware), except for the pinnacle of human achievement: the iPods with the click wheel. But I think the Apple "cult" and the increasing lock in to the ecosystem is party if a negative feedback loop: developers often make apps only for Apple, or make it for Apple first, or just half-ass their Android/Windows versions. So the lock in is encouraged by Apple and amplified by developers. But the while time they are paying for the privilege of the wall garden (and before people get confused again, "walled garden" is just a way of saying "pretty prison", it is not meant to imply you are hanging out at a 5-star all-inclusive resort).
  - robenkleene 2y ago
    > I've hated nearly all of their software paradigms Saying statements like this without provide evidence or examples is pointless. E.G., have you read this article, do you disagree with it? https://daringfireball.net/2004/04/spray_on_usability https://daringfireball.net/2004/04/spray_on_usability > But the while time they are paying for the privilege of the wall garden Again this could use further extrapolation, in vacuum I think we can agree a walled garden is worse for developers than an open platform (for users I'd say that balance is a lot less clear, but if I try to make that argument some folks completely lose it). But we don't live in a vacuum, so I'd say most developers who build for Apple platforms do so because they prefer the toolchain, and that trumps the value of an open platform for them. I used to develop for Apple platforms, and I still think the toolchain is better than anything else I've ever used, and it's not close (I like the debugger integration, the memory tools, and Instruments).
    - davidmurdoch 2y ago
      > Saying statements like this without provide evidence or examples is pointless. Evidence of an opinion? I don't think you understand how opinions work.
      - 2y ago
robenkleene 2y ago
This is absolutely categorically not true, Apple use to prioritize the advantages of macOS, which made it a great platform for the big creative tasks, like media creation and editing, and programming (programming is actually one of the areas macOS has taken the least number of hits). Here's Adam Lisagor talking about old Apple (original release of Final Cut Pro) vs new Apple (release of Final Cut Pro X) (https://lonelysandwich.com/post/7033868135/fcp-the-new-class https://lonelysandwich.com/post/7033868135/fcp-the-new-class): > When Apple pushed FCP to the industry pros five or six years ago, they did some hardcore outreach. They brought out Walter Murch, for God’s sake. The man cut Cold Mountain on it for God’s sake. They evangelized by showing what had been done, not by what could be done. But this time out, there is no evangelizing. No Murch. They do a dog and pony with vapid car footage or a Pixar trailer or something. This is meaningless to industry pros who need to know one thing, and it’s a very simple thing: can I edit a _____ on it? You know what I want to know? Can Louie CK edit his show on FCP X? Would he? Would he be happy to do it? Would he speak to a crowd of people about the experience? I could go on in countless ways the company has changed, this is just one axis.
- davidmurdoch 2y ago
  They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. The intensity at which they do that has accelerated, but I think the rate at which they are doing this over time has increased consistently. It's been a great business model, and I'm not in anyway claiming people don't really truly love using their products. To be fair, the same writing is on the wall for Google (they're just bad at it but will figure it out eventually).
  - robenkleene 2y ago
    > They've been pursuing lock-in and feigning superiority since at least the late '00s. Again these could use evidence/examples. But there also tangential to examples I was giving, personally I don't factor in lock-in or "feigning superiority", I just care if the platform is great for certain tasks like media creation and editing, and then becoming worse at that is a recent thing.

Forgeties79 2y ago

Maybe this is just me but I feel like the age of endless praise/camping out for Apple products ended a solid decade ago.

pyinstallwoes 2y ago
It ended ever since they stopped innovating. They only incrementally improve the status quo now.
- badcarbine 2y ago
  [dead]
- minkles 2y ago
  I hear this a lot. The products are basically on the top of the maturity curve now so incremental improvements is all it is likely to be for a long time. Some of the big "innovations", an example being folding screens, aren't really viable at the moment and possibly never and Apple are quite conservative on their engineering. This is a good thing for those of us who see these as utility devices mostly. In fact most of the time I'd rather people just left stuff the fuck alone.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    > The products are basically on the top of the maturity curve People said that about phones in 2006 as well, they had looked the same for a while then, why would you want more than a phone that can call, make messages, and has a built in calendar?
    - minkles 2y ago
      No they didn't. They sold like crazy which is why everyone has them now.
7thaccount 2y ago
Same. When the iPhone was still relatively new and every art kid had a MacBook pro and Apple was innovating and coming out with new things, it seems like there was more excitement.

m_a_g 2y ago

Hug of death?

limuc 2y ago

https://archive.is/qAWvK https://archive.is/qAWvK as site is not/very slowly loading.

wwilim 2y ago

I feel it's partly because the devices are now actually far superior to competitors thanks to M series processors, so owning a MacBook is no longer just a matter of being hip. This means many Apple buyers are now people who just want a bloody powerful laptop, rather than people drawn to the tasteful design who would be more likely to preach about it. The power buyers don't need to preach, every chart tells you what they would. The Macbook Pro has become the Top Right Messi of the laptop game.

alt227 2y ago
[flagged]
- id00 2y ago
  ... or the weight, or the battery life, or the assembly quality. And if it's all good then you have to deal with ads and spyware of Windows 11 or with one of many linux distros that can be good for some but still too far from delivering cohesive and stable experience for mainstream users
  - alt227 2y ago
    OP was saying about how apple laptops are the fastest thing in the world. I disputed that. Where do your comments come in relating to this argument? Seems like you are just spouting random subjective stuff just to defend macbooks.
    - stetrain 2y ago
      > OP was saying about how apple laptops are the fastest thing in the world. No, they did not. There are more axes to a good powerful laptop computer than maximum speed.
      - alt227 2y ago
        Really? I personally dont see how the power of a laptop has anything to do with things like weight, or contruction. Please tell me what these other axis of power are? In my opinion computer power means one thing, how fast it can perform a workload.

firesteelrain 2y ago

Apple appears to not innovated significantly beyond the Job’s original iPhone release. It’s small incremental improvements to the platform however not the major shakeup that occurred with the original iPhone. It’s not a slow decline of the cult. People still get excited for new iPhone releases. It’s just so prolific now and you can get it from places like Target that no need to camp out anymore. It’s basically become an appliance.

msabalau 2y ago
The first iPhone was fine, but it was the second generation and the app store that actually delivered a "real" smart phone. The retina display in the iPhone 4 may have been an incremental improvement, but it wasn't a "small" one. But. yeah, decreasingly minor improvements after 2010. The passionate Apple 'cult' of geeky superfans existed long before the iPhone, even the before the Mac, and it continued for very long time. What the author is noting is that well over a decade of minor enhancements, rent-seeking, and "innovation shaped objects" like the Vision Pro are finally killing off the this geeky crowd of superfans. Apple will continue to make tons of money as an upper middle class lifestyle brand, hawking their talismans at Target. But that is irrelevant to the authors point. Apple doesn't need the super enthusiast "cult" anymore, and it's slowly fading away.
- firesteelrain 2y ago
  Thanks for the perspective. I can see your point

josefresco 2y ago

"Rent-seeking Apple" might destroy the goodwill created by previously positive positions like: "Privacy Focused Apple" and before that "User Experience Apple". Once the iCloud tax starts climbing Apple might become the new AT&T in the eyes of the consumer.

bustling-noose 2y ago

I don’t think revenue is a good measure of ‘decline’. People have saturated their lives with devices over the last 4-5 years and iPads iPhones and watches and EarPods have reached a saturation point. So the revenues will not grow linearly anymore cause new owners of watches and EarPods are not getting added. There is no new device like the Apple watch to enter the ecosystem so revenues have stayed somewhat flat. This is if you think the cult is relevant to revenue. From what I know everyone and their dog on social media uses an iPhone Pro. Given the high usage and addiction of social media, the iPhone that shows 3 cameras on the back is still the gold standard of status. People thought (including me) that raising the price of the flagship to 1000$+ might affect sales but it didn’t. As long as Apple maintains its luxury, people will buy it no matter what you say about them. The problem is that unlike LVMH where margins are insane, Apple is still a tech company thriving on innovation. So unlike other luxury brands, Apple stock may not do as well as others. But if you think the cult is buying something else now, just open Instagram and count how many people have selfies with a pixel and thousands of followers (who are the part of cult). You’ll have a tough time spotting one.

Vampiero 2y ago
If there's one consumer base where the consumers will mindlessly buy every new product despite the price or the fact that it's the same thing as the previous model, it's Apple. It's a brand for people with money who want to flex on the poor, not a brand for people who put thought into their purchases or who care about tech. You said it already, it's about status.
- kcplate 2y ago
  Yeah, flexing on the poor is definitely why I buy their products, it has absolutely nothing to do with the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem.
  - alt227 2y ago
    > the quality and productivity gains I get from their product ecosystem These gains are also available elsewhere. You are not superior, nor do you have access to superior things or ways of working, just because you buy Apple. That is the success of the Apple marketing team making you think that way.

fluoridation 2y ago

>Is the goal to turn into Microsoft, because this is how you turn into Microsoft. Duh. Well, indirectly. The goal of both is to grow, like gray goo, or cancer. Anything else is a secondary concern that can be sacrificed for the goal. No company wants to be the underdog, perpetually struggling for second place.

baal80spam 2y ago

We have a law for such articles, and the answer is: "No.".

beardyw 2y ago

Flagged - to no one's surprise.

ryandvm 2y ago

As an Android fan, I have to give Apple credit. They provide solid top-tier hardware and software, which Google does as well with the Pixel, but Apple also combines it with strong arm tactics to keep people inside the wall. No dirty trick is off limits, from ecosystem lock-in to green-icon bullying at school - anything to get you to buy an iPhone. Google doesn't really try to do this - mostly out of sheer incompetence I think. Look at Google's messaging strategy. They have the most popular web browser in the world by far. They could easily have bundled a decent, lightweight chat client into Chrome and they would have 80% worldwide installed base. Instead their messaging strategy has literally become an industry joke.

fluoridation 2y ago
>green-icon bullying at school I'm far from an Apple fan, but is that really Apple's fault?
- alt227 2y ago
  They made no effort to help the issue, when they very easily could have.
  - fluoridation 2y ago
    Such as by doing...?
    - alt227 2y ago
      Making all bubbles green
      - fluoridation 2y ago
        The point of the color is so the user knows whether a message is encrypted or not.
        2y ago

jacknews 2y ago

"The problems all stem from the business end of the company" Seems to be a recurring theme these days.

znpy 2y ago

> Apple’s always been a bit different, and they’ve often been the scrappy underdog who was barely surviving. Uhm... No? Apple has had a hard time in the nineties, but now it's been doing just fine for the last 15+ years (and in the last ten years it's been doing awesomely). Uh, this is why (in my opinion) apple fans are considered part of a cult: they have strong opinions that have no connections to reality.

mgarfias 2y ago

I’m just waiting for an alternative. I’d happy run a *nix on my desktop if I didn’t have to use X11 and could have real apps to run. I’m about to be forced to use windows for the first time in 20 years and I’m seriously dreading it. At the same time, I’m sick of apples stranglehold on the iPhone. It’s my phone, let me do what I want with it. I’ve tried using android stuff a bit (bought a Samsung tablet for obd2 stuff), and it left me wanting to scream and throw things. I miss my 04-08 Mac experience that didn’t suck. And don’t tell me the new stuff is more reliable - the other day I had to power cycle my m1max mbp as the keyboard stopped responding.