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> 10 years from now they’ll be busting down doors for sharing illegal memes (Seems to already be the case in the UK). UK law does not prohibit memes. It prohib
by PaulRobinson 2y ago
> 10 years from now they’ll be busting down doors for sharing illegal memes (Seems to already be the case in the UK).
UK law does not prohibit memes. It prohibits incitement to riot, as does US law. It prohibits incitement to murder, as does US law. In fact, these acts are illegal in almost every democracy in the World, even the most progressive and liberal ones, because they are reasonable statutes to extend common law (protecting people and their property from damage by others).
In recent weeks, a young man born in Wales to Rwandan-born Christian migrant parents, diagnosed with autistic spectrum disorders, stabbed three 6-year old girls to death at a dance class. He attempted to murder the other children in the class, and the adults who intervened.
The "illegal memes" as you put it, were that he was a foreign-born Muslim who had entered the country illegally (all aspect of this narrative are false), and that people should riot to show their displeasure, and kill Muslim migrants to "save our children".
Seeing these "facts", mobs rioted in multiple towns over the course of a week, injured multiple (unarmed) police officers, caused tens of millions of pounds in damage to private property, and attempted to burn down a hotel with 200+ migrants (including children), staying in it, while many people of colour were individually attacked, their shops looted, their homes and cars damaged, and so on.
Arresting and charging the people who did these things is an obvious priority.
Arresting and charging the people who spread misinformation (I believe it was actually disinformation - purposeful, intentful lies), and suggesting that riots and murder should take place, are just as guilty of incitement in the UK as they would be anywhere else in the World.
The internet is not a fantasy land. What you post has real World consequences. If you get together in a private forum and plan to kidnap, rape and kill a celebrity (a case also tried in the UK recently), that's not "online meme banter", that's conspiracy to kidnap, rape and murder. You're going to prison, you're a threat to public safety.
The lines you say the government don't have, they're there. They're called "laws". Some of them are arguably unjust - I've campaigned against some IP law extensions in the past, including the introduction of software patents in the EU (when the UK was still a member), and think RIPA was a tragedy of law making - but to say that laws are irrelevant and action is defined only by the resistance a government faces is absurdly cynical, naive, and simply not true.
Your last sentence leads to an obvious question: what do you think people should do instead of "sitting by passively and praying that the system will come to its senses"? Do you think inciting riots and murder are the way to go?
- EugeneOZ 2y agoThat case of murder was not the only reason. And while it is based on misinformation (and I agree it was made on purpose), just one case would not cause the riots. It was just “the last drop”.
- hermitcrab 2y agoSome of the people that rioted were a motley assortment of right wing thugs following their warped ideology. Others were just yobs who were gullible enough to believe the misinformation, or just saw an opportunity for mayhem (one of the rioters has, IIRC, 170 previous convictions). Yes, people are frustrated about many things in the UK (lack of affordable housing, dentists, decent jobs etc). But a most of these things are down to austerity, poor governance and the greed of the ruling classes. They aren't caused by relatively tiny numbers (29,437 in 2023) of desperate people coming across the channel in small boats. They are just a convenient scapegoat.
- PaulRobinson 2y agoPerhaps you could explain the previous drops. I don't think they exist, other than as disinformation and propaganda. Migration of all forms is at a record high in the UK [0], yet violent crime is at an all-time low. How is violent crime correlated to migration, as so many people claim on Twitter, WhatsApp groups and Facebook pages? "What about the money we spend on them?", some ask. Well, contrary to popular belief, asylum seekers don't get mainstream benefits [1] and legal migrants aren't entitled to public funds until they have been granted indefinite leave to remain [2]. NHS costs need to be paid for either through the IHS scheme, or directly at 150% of cost [3] "Oh, employed are they? Taking jobs off locals, are they?", the pub bore starts to snort. Well, no. Nobody really wants to spend 12 hours a day running a corner shop, or working in a field picking sprouts on minimum wage, which is why there are record levels of job vacancies in the UK right now. [4] I'll ask again then, where are the previous drops? Migration does not cause increases in crime by any measure, the only costs incurred are caused by delays in processing, they're not "taking anybody's else's job" and overall migration leads to higher tax incomes, and they pay their way for services through taxes on jobs no local wants. So please, spell it out for me. I'm really curious about those previous drops. I suspect that you may have been lied to. [0] https://izajodm.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/2193-9039-2-19 https://izajodm.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/2193-9039-... [1] https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01909/ https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01... [2] https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06847/SN06847.pdf https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06... [3] https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-much-pay https://www.gov.uk/healthcare-immigration-application/how-mu... [4] https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/jobsandvacanciesintheuk/january2024 https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwor...