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If you’d ever played danmaku games at a high level, you’d realise that the patterns are not the same over and over. Most well-made games have many elements of

If you’d ever played danmaku games at a high level, you’d realise that the patterns are not the same over and over. Most well-made games have many elements of positional advantage and economy of movement to shape the bullet patterns in your favour. R-Type, on the other hand, is a pure memorisation game, much more so than Touhou or Donpachi, and definitely features the same patterns every single time.

imiric 2y ago
Right. Memorization of patterns is definitely a staple of most shmups. I suppose I didn't express myself properly. What I meant is that when there is a pattern in the objects you have to avoid, and the number of them becomes overwhelming, it doesn't make the gameplay more enjoyable (IMO). Those micro movements you mention surely require a lot of skill, but to me they're just not fun. Take a game like The Binding of Isaac as another example, whose core mechanic is a shooter. Twin-stick shooters are an evolution of the shmup after all, where the player is in control of their attack direction. What makes TBoI so much fun is the unpredictability of enemy movement and randomness of objects you have to avoid. It does have areas where attacks are overwhelming, but player progression is usually well balanced (though it is possible to become overpowered as well :), so it's never just a dodging game. But I concede that my experience with bullet-hell shooters is limited, due to this initial dislike of their core mechanic. On a slight tangent, this is why I don't see the appeal of the recently popularized "survivors-like" games. Sure, there are swarms of enemies, but they come at predictable patterns, so the main mechanic is just strafing around them. Add to that that they remove your ability to aim or fire, and the gameplay boils down to just using directional keys in a specific order. It's so boring and unengaging. But then again, there are entire genres of clickers and idlers I don't get either, so this is purely a subjective take. :)
- YurgenJurgensen 2y ago
  I think you’re actually not harsh /enough/ on survivors games. Most of them don’t even have any dodging in them. They’re idle games masquerading as action games. And they’ve polluted the ‘bullet hell’ tag on Steam to the point where it’s impossible to find real danmaku games.

imiric 2y ago

Right. Memorization of patterns is definitely a staple of most shmups. I suppose I didn't express myself properly. What I meant is that when there is a pattern in the objects you have to avoid, and the number of them becomes overwhelming, it doesn't make the gameplay more enjoyable (IMO). Those micro movements you mention surely require a lot of skill, but to me they're just not fun. Take a game like The Binding of Isaac as another example, whose core mechanic is a shooter. Twin-stick shooters are an evolution of the shmup after all, where the player is in control of their attack direction. What makes TBoI so much fun is the unpredictability of enemy movement and randomness of objects you have to avoid. It does have areas where attacks are overwhelming, but player progression is usually well balanced (though it is possible to become overpowered as well :), so it's never just a dodging game. But I concede that my experience with bullet-hell shooters is limited, due to this initial dislike of their core mechanic. On a slight tangent, this is why I don't see the appeal of the recently popularized "survivors-like" games. Sure, there are swarms of enemies, but they come at predictable patterns, so the main mechanic is just strafing around them. Add to that that they remove your ability to aim or fire, and the gameplay boils down to just using directional keys in a specific order. It's so boring and unengaging. But then again, there are entire genres of clickers and idlers I don't get either, so this is purely a subjective take. :)

YurgenJurgensen 2y ago
I think you’re actually not harsh /enough/ on survivors games. Most of them don’t even have any dodging in them. They’re idle games masquerading as action games. And they’ve polluted the ‘bullet hell’ tag on Steam to the point where it’s impossible to find real danmaku games.