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> When the Media and governments were confidently pointing fingers at Russia I followed the reports. There was a myriad of low-confidence speculation around US

> When the Media and governments were confidently pointing fingers at Russia I followed the reports. There was a myriad of low-confidence speculation around US, Ukraine, or Russia. Nothing confident from almost any media or government. There have been many European and American media reports and government statements since just a few weeks after the incident that indicated they didn't have evidence it was Russia. The Ukrainian Andromeda ship was flagged as suspicious within some months and the counterbalance was, let's not be too hasty, it might be false flag. The western infosphere is a lot better than RT and I've gotten no inclination from it that it was definitely Russia. Russia is the one pointing at UK and US. The reporting was generally correct, as opposed to Seymour Hersh's wild fairytale which bears no semblance to reality (single source, elite Norwegian team, BALTOPS 2022...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabotage#Reactions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Nord_Stream_pipeline_sabo...

mc32 2y ago
Here is but one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdKK06-7EE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdKK06-7EE or: https://apnews.com/article/germany-ukraine-russia-gas-pipeline-attack-nordstream-d267ad7dcff560c9ecaebf4f213e5229 https://apnews.com/article/germany-ukraine-russia-gas-pipeli... But if you want to look around, you will see plenty, vast amounts of pundits and officials pointing fingers at Russia, if not directly accusing it. I'm sure, if we put a collage together of all the CNN, ABC, MSNBC, Fox, etc., et., we'd see lots of guests putting forth the idea it was Russia, with very few objections, despite the obvious outrageousness of the idea. It's in the same class of stupidity that the US brought down the twin towers type conspiracy theory nonsense. Now, was it a couple of drunk guys; no, that's not likely but it's at least pointing in the actual direction, while adding a less than believable disclaimer.
- reducesuffering 2y ago
  Are you even reading the same article? Title: "Germany cautious" "The New York Times also reported Tuesday that U.S. officials reviewed intelligence that suggested a pro-Ukrainian group was behind the blasts." 'German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said he read the news reports “with great interest” but warned against drawing hasty conclusions.' '“It would not be the first time in the history of such events,” the German minister said. “As such, I’m refraining from drawing premature conclusions.”' '“The identity of the perpetrators and their motives are the subject of ongoing investigations,” it added. “At present, it is not possible to make any reliable statements on this, in particular on the question of state control.”' OP insinuated that western media was confidently blaming Russia. Almost nothing in the media or government officials was damning, it was speculation, no one really knew and that's what they reported. The article is AP and citing NYT. It's wildly tiresome to hear people rail against "mainstream media" because they reported on one government official saying "I think it might be Russia," but when they read Seymour Hersh's substack that puts 10,000 words of just completely made up bs, they're like "wow so good, mainstream news only lies"
squillion 2y ago
There were a lot of insinuations that Russia did it [1]. But fine, might have been six guys on a boat who dove 260 ft deep with enough explosive to cause craters "with a depth of 3 to 5 metres" [2] - in bad weather. What's not credible is that the US would try to stop them. It was absolutely US interest to stop Nord Stream 1 and 2. Now the economic ties between western Europe and Russia are irreparably severed, and Europe is importing liquified natural gas mostly from the US. Why the US would be against a sabotage is beyond me. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZyKYitC3M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZyKYitC3M [2] https://www.nord-stream.com/press-info/press-releases/incident-on-the-nord-stream-pipeline-updated-14112022-529/ https://www.nord-stream.com/press-info/press-releases/incide...

mc32 2y ago

Here is but one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdKK06-7EE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWdKK06-7EE or: https://apnews.com/article/germany-ukraine-russia-gas-pipeline-attack-nordstream-d267ad7dcff560c9ecaebf4f213e5229 https://apnews.com/article/germany-ukraine-russia-gas-pipeli... But if you want to look around, you will see plenty, vast amounts of pundits and officials pointing fingers at Russia, if not directly accusing it. I'm sure, if we put a collage together of all the CNN, ABC, MSNBC, Fox, etc., et., we'd see lots of guests putting forth the idea it was Russia, with very few objections, despite the obvious outrageousness of the idea. It's in the same class of stupidity that the US brought down the twin towers type conspiracy theory nonsense. Now, was it a couple of drunk guys; no, that's not likely but it's at least pointing in the actual direction, while adding a less than believable disclaimer.

reducesuffering 2y ago
Are you even reading the same article? Title: "Germany cautious" "The New York Times also reported Tuesday that U.S. officials reviewed intelligence that suggested a pro-Ukrainian group was behind the blasts." 'German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius said he read the news reports “with great interest” but warned against drawing hasty conclusions.' '“It would not be the first time in the history of such events,” the German minister said. “As such, I’m refraining from drawing premature conclusions.”' '“The identity of the perpetrators and their motives are the subject of ongoing investigations,” it added. “At present, it is not possible to make any reliable statements on this, in particular on the question of state control.”' OP insinuated that western media was confidently blaming Russia. Almost nothing in the media or government officials was damning, it was speculation, no one really knew and that's what they reported. The article is AP and citing NYT. It's wildly tiresome to hear people rail against "mainstream media" because they reported on one government official saying "I think it might be Russia," but when they read Seymour Hersh's substack that puts 10,000 words of just completely made up bs, they're like "wow so good, mainstream news only lies"

squillion 2y ago

There were a lot of insinuations that Russia did it [1]. But fine, might have been six guys on a boat who dove 260 ft deep with enough explosive to cause craters "with a depth of 3 to 5 metres" [2] - in bad weather. What's not credible is that the US would try to stop them. It was absolutely US interest to stop Nord Stream 1 and 2. Now the economic ties between western Europe and Russia are irreparably severed, and Europe is importing liquified natural gas mostly from the US. Why the US would be against a sabotage is beyond me. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZyKYitC3M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSZyKYitC3M [2] https://www.nord-stream.com/press-info/press-releases/incident-on-the-nord-stream-pipeline-updated-14112022-529/ https://www.nord-stream.com/press-info/press-releases/incide...