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Netflix Quietly Smothers 3rd Party App Ecosystem
- nestlequ1k 14y agoAnother bad decision in a long stream of management incompetence.
- walru 14y agoFrom this vantage point they look like the next Blackberry. A company with so much going for it you'll look back and wonder how they threw it all away.
- lukeschlather 14y agoI don't think it's really fair to Netflix to say they're throwing anything away. They exist totally at the pleasure of big content, and big content has decided that they want people to use cable. There's not really anything you can do when your distributors buy out one of your competitors and start to cut out the middle man (you.)
- cookiecaper 14y agoI hope the [relative] corpse that Netflix will inevitably become is made a poster boy for copyright reform. Netflix was used as the "streaming delivery" guinea pig by big content, and now that they've seen it to be profitable, they don't see why they should give Netflix a slice of the pie (thus comes Hulu). I completely agree that the media companies are actively trying to harm Netflix. Netflix, of course, is aware of this and is quietly attempting to procure rights to in-demand programming. This is the motivation behind picking Arrested Development back up. It's a good strategy if they believe they can swing it, but it's very threatening to the media conglomerates (who are already terrified of the internet); certainly a tough act to balance. Netflix is between a rock and a hard place.
- mmanfrin 14y agoGood lord, what stupidity. The only usable netflix interfaces are the 3d party ones. The vanilla site is atrocious.
- jarrettcoggin 14y agoI mostly used their application on the PS3, but I also used the boxee implementation for a while. And yes, I do agree with you that the website is less-than-ideal.
- sujal 14y agoThose are official apps, though, right? They shouldn't be affected by this because they're probably covered by terms negotiated between the platform provider & Netflix?
- jarrettcoggin 14y agoThey are official apps (PS3, Wii, XBox), but not Boxee's implementation. That type of thing is what would be detracted from in this case.
- ams6110 14y agoSame here, I use the Wii app as that's what's connected to the TV. I never watch netflix on my computer.
- gcb 14y agoThe wii app is the worst piece of software i've ever seen. totally lack of understanding of system. dumb choices all around. the most limiting search ever conceived by mankind. absolutely no way to see related content from one movie like you can even on the official netflix site.
- neutronicus 14y agoI have never met any person bothered by using the vanilla netflix interface in meatspace.
- edandersen 14y agoThe bean counters are out in force. Must be a sign that they are threatened.
- citricsquid 14y agoYour blog post is broken, the link to the netflix post is set as the title of the href. For anyone that wants to read it: http://developer.netflix.com/blog/read/Upcoming_Changes_to_the_Netflix_API_Program http://developer.netflix.com/blog/read/Upcoming_Changes_to_t...
- johnb 14y agoFixing now.
- geelen 14y agoAnd fixed. Thanks for the heads-up.
- troels 14y agojohnb == geelen ?
- geelen 14y agoJohn and I wrote the post. We're the cofounders of Goodfilms: http://goodfil.ms/help http://goodfil.ms/help
- pooriaazimi 14y agoMy email client keeps crashing this evening for some reason, and what I want to say doesn't fit into the 'feedback' page you have there, so I say it here: I'd like to use your site, but I don't have a Facebook account (removed it a couple years ago), and don't want to be bothered to remember what my twitter password (which I virtually haven't used once in the past years) was. I understand why you might want to enforce a social network account (1. engaging people to be more social and bring their friends and 2. simpler management of accounts), but I personally have literally zero interest in what my friends like to watch, and have never and would never use Twitter/Facebook. Why can't I use your site? I know I'm not the norm, but you should allow everyone to use your service. If you're valuable to them, they'll bring their friends with them, and if they're not, then having their friends' usernames won't help you. Registering and keeping track of users is absurdly easy, so I think you should re-consider your choice of mandating social accounts. (Sorry it's not relevant to this topic, just wanted you to know that there are people like me who shy away from any and every service that requires OAuth)
- nicholassmith 14y agoGiven how many companies are now rushing to get API's ready, opening them up at hackathons and getting developers motivated this seems like a really big own goal. Consumers just like nice ways to use the services they're on, developers like nice ways to integrated services into their projects. Companies like revenues from people discovering their service outside of their normal channels. So, without knowing their genuine reasons for changing the API access it seems like Netflix basically have made a really stupid decision.
- debacle 14y agoFrom the sounds of it, they want to monetize their data.
- nicholassmith 14y agoWhich is really good, additional revenue streams are an excellent idea. Doing it like this? Less excellent. There's probably much better ways to monetize rather than upending the apple cart and having developers go 'huh, this isn't a great idea'.
- pcopley 14y agoNetflix is becoming the EA of streaming media.
- brennenbyrne 14y agoI get that this sucks as one of the 3 remaining people using Netflix's API, but the writing has been on the wall for at least a year since they announced that Netflix itself accounted for more than 97% of all API usage. Most of the remaining services offer subpar experiences and it makes total sense that Netflix would make another step towards controlling their users' experience. The shift away from third-party apps has been happening for a long time, and the fact that you only care / are angry about it when it is affecting you is telling. Clearly you're not interested in the consumer experience, just in how this affects your bottom line. That's a legitimate concern that I can support, but let's call it like it is.
- jenius 14y agoUnrelated directly to the article's content, but I found your type extremely difficult to read and reworked it in browser so I could read it more easily. Here's how it looks and the modifications I made - hope this helps! Screenshot: http://cl.ly/HTyu http://cl.ly/HTyu p { font-size: 16px; line-height: 1.7em; color: #555; } .hentry header { magin-bottom: 1.5em; }
- geelen 14y agoThanks for the suggestion! I met you half way :)
- Johngibb 14y agoI'd also suggest that you add some margin to your bullets - as it stands now the bullet is further left than the text, and then the text lines up with adjoining paragraphs. I think it would look better if the _bullets_ lined up with the other paragraphs instead.
- 286c8cb04bda 14y agoThose are called "hanging bullets"[1] -- It's a very old typographic convention that was up-ended by the default behavior of the web. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_punctuation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_punctuation
- rtkwe 14y agoWhat 3rd party app ecosystem? Honestly I've never used anything outside the netflix.com client.
- blantonl 14y agoSearch for Netflix in the App Store or the Android play market.... There are a bunch of third party apps.. Especially on android (but none of them actually stream Netflix, they just allow you to manage your queue etc)
- rtkwe 14y agoAhh those, never needed a queue manager cause I'm streaming only. They never seemed particularly useful.
- qdog 14y agoOne of the devices in my house is an older blu-ray player that has the Netflix streaming ability, but it can only play stuff from your queue! So, I have to put stuff in my queue I if I want to watch it on that tv. Otherwise, though, doesn't seem so useful when you are just streaming.
- fragmede 14y agoI presume http://abetterqueue.com http://abetterqueue.com and http://instantwatcher.com/ http://instantwatcher.com/ and the like use the APIs as well. One thing I like about instantwatcher is that title do expire from netflix, and instantwatcher will sort by expiration date: http://instantwatcher.com/titles/expiring http://instantwatcher.com/titles/expiring
- rtkwe 14y agoOk, so those are actually useful. Though it looks like Abetterqueue and instantwatcher will still be allowed under the new API rules.
- 14y ago
- sp332 14y agoFrom Nils in the comments there: All developers should stop integrating netflix in their services and concentrate on the competition. They have nothing to lose as they are not allowed to make money using netflix anyways. Can anyone see this going any other way? There will be no 3rd party apps supporting Netflix anymore.
- drone 14y agoI disagree with the author's assertion that the following point means you can't sell an app that uses the Netflix API: "charge, directly or indirectly, any fee (including any unique, specific, or premium charges) for access to the Content or your integration of the APIs in your Application," It seems pretty clear to me that this point says that you can't add additional fees to include the Netflix API data in your app, or charge an additional fee to enable such a feature. Nowhere does it say that you can't charge for an app that includes the API. However, that no enterprise-app statement is quite odd. I wonder what the specific driver was for that addition? There was likely some straw that broke the camel's back there, and it would be entertaining at the least (IMO) to learn what it was.
- fragmede 14y ago"charge... _any_ fee... for access... [to] (your integration of the APIs) in your Application," It certainly reads like that to me. (How else are you supposed to use the APIs in your application?)
- drone 14y ago"(including any unique, specific, or premium charges) for access to the Content or your integration of the APIs in your Application" Is the actual text, the part you added was your interpretation of the meaning - however, there are some indicators (starting with the parenthesized text in the original) which imply you're reading it overly broad. "For access to the Content" (the Content being the content served by the API), and "or your integration of the APIs". Nowhere does it say, "You may not charge any fee for any application which accesses these APIs," which if it were the intent of the lawyers to ensure that only "free" applications used the APIs, they would've stated so. Instead, they talk about fees for accessing the content and fees for integration, which seems to be to be clear that they are indicating that they don't want people selling the content served by the API or charging extra for using the Netflix API.
- fragmede 14y agoThe word 'any' precedes the parenthetical statement which I take it to mean, well, any. You are free to interpret the word 'any' however you'd like. I must say though, I do like your interpretation more. :) From http://developer.netflix.com/page/Api_terms_of_use http://developer.netflix.com/page/Api_terms_of_use, section 1.9: 1.9 Appropriate Conduct and Usage Restrictions. You are responsible for your own conduct while using the API and for any consequences thereof. You will use the API only for purposes that are legal, proper and in accordance with these Terms and any applicable policies or guidelines provided by Netflix from time to time. In addition to the other restrictions contained in these Terms, you agree that when using the API, you will not do the following, attempt to do the following, or permit your end users or other third parties to do the following: ...charge, directly or indirectly, any fee (including any unique, specific, or premium charges) for access to the Content or your integration of the APIs in your Application, or use the APIs to build an enterprise application (e.g., that you distribute to other companies);
- butterfi 14y agoNetflix's problems with user history may be relevant here: http://www.reelseo.com/netflix-privacy-problems/ http://www.reelseo.com/netflix-privacy-problems/
- loudmax 14y agoThis worries me as a customer. As a consumer, having access to other interfaces, even if I'm not using them, seems like better value than however Netflix thinks they can monetize their customers' viewing data. If they do find some other income stream, maybe they can use it to keep pricing flat or buy more content. But after the Qwickster debacle, I'm not too confident in their ability to do this. Discouraging other enterprises from building businesses around them isn't a good signal. If Netflix drives itself out of business, I hope someone else (Amazon perhaps) will pick up the lead. I really have no interest in getting a cable subscription.
- talmand 14y agoI'm curious as to why you think a company discouraging a third-party from building a business around them isn't a good signal of the survivability of the company. Are you implying that Netflix needs these third-parties in some way? I would imagine that the vast majority of Netflix's customers not only do not use this third-party app ecosystem, but that they have no idea it exists.
- talmand 14y agoI'm constantly amazed at the entitlement attitude so many have when it comes to APIs and other people's data. Netflix wishes to change the rules on their API so that it fits in with some broader strategy no one knows about, so what? They wish to restrict the flow of data that they collect for their own uses, so what? They no longer wish to allow third-parties to monetize data accessed from a public API, so what? Regardless of what the article states, it is their data and they can do with it as they please. A person's viewing history on Netflix is not that person's data, it is Netflix's data as they are the people who spent the money to collect it. No amount of whining or complaining will change that. I can understand people thinking this might be a bad idea for them and I agree that it's possibly a PR mistake. But there is a difference between complaining about access and demanding access to a company's data.
- blantonl 14y agoSpot on. When you build your house on someone else's foundation, your house is at the mercy of the foundation's owner's plans. Publically available APIs are great, but at times I am troubled by how many people develop entire products and applications around other's data, and then scream bloody murder when their business model goes up in smoke because the parent decided to evolve and innovate their own business.
- incongruity 14y agoForget business models – I find it frustrating as a consumer to see the value proposition of a service I value being reduced. I think it's perfectly reasonable to be unhappy about a reduction in value to me, the end consumer. Do I understand it? Perhaps – I still view it as a poor sort of competitive behavior because it's built around increasing information asymmetry and reducing consumers' ability to compare offerings – rather than making their own offerings stronger.
- ctdonath 14y agoFrom article: It appears Netflix considers what films you’ve watched and what you thought of them as their data, not yours. What you've watched & thought of it is, of course, your data. However, Netflix is in no way obligated to act as your memory in when & whatever manner you demand.
- revorad 14y agoDon't forget Amazon does the same for physical goods purchases (I don't know about their streaming service). Your purchase history is not available via their API. Product reviews are also no longer available via their API. They don't mind listing their products alongside other retailers. Otherwise many shopping comparison engines would go bust. They probably allow it, not from the goodness of their hearts, but only because it drives sales seeing that they usually come out on top in price comparisons. Netflix probably doesn't make much money off people coming to them via comparison apps (because they are already signed up anyway). Building your entire business on top of one or two powerful companies' data and APIs will always be extremely risky. So, it's best left for hobby apps.
- Timothee 14y agoRegardless of your opinion on Netflix's decision, announcing any negative news on a Friday afternoon (though I'm not surprised they did so) is bad form.
- johnb 14y agoThat's definitely what got us going. We wouldn't have even done the diff on the legals if the blog post wasn't put up with such vague language so late on a friday afternoon.
- CGamesPlay 14y agoNetflix is in a battle with the VPPA, which covers video rental history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_Privacy_Protection_Act). This smells like some side-effect of a compromise they've been able to achieve in congress. Netflix's "broader objectives" are unattainable without changing some of the laws in the US, so they may be between a rock and a hard place here.
- waterlesscloud 14y agoProbably, but they've just managed to switch me from supporting them in that fight to hoping they lose it. Not that it matters one bit what I think, and they clearly know that.
- IsleofElba 14y agoMy take on this is simple: many competitors (Hulu, Amazon, Verizon, Comcast, etc.) are likely using the API or screen scraping services like Instantwatcher to gain critical competitive data about Netflix's catalog size and composition, deal term length, content popularity, etc. With the former dataset, you could basically build a list of average contract term length, suppliers, genres, popularity, etc. What leads me to believe this is the case is they first killed expiration date - obscuring when titles expire makes it difficult for competitors to pick of your best stuff. The recent changes probably came after Netflix took a closer look at how the API was being utilized.
- biot 14y agoThese look like great changes. An alternate interpretation: 1. Third parties can't do nefarious things such as share my data with Facebook or tell my insurance company should I have watched some "surviving cancer" documentary in the past. They're enforcing laws which protect the privacy of my viewing history. 2. Someone can't gouge consumers by layering on additional fees to access what you've already paid for. eg: "Want to watch Netflix on your mobile device? That'll be $5/movie, please, and will show up on your next AT&T statement." 3. An application presenting itself as being a Netflix app can't pull the rug out from under you and make it easy to accidentally click on an iTunes version of the movie, get charged $4.99, and the third party gets an affiliate commission. 4. Third parties can no longer in bad faith scrape the Netflix database and use it for non-Netflix purposes. Do they really need to enforce common sense and decency here? There are many other sources for movie data if sites need that info.
- Porter_423 14y agoWhether you're a windows developer, a mac developer, a web developer, an app developer, or working for any other kind of software-based business you are putting some of your eggs in someone else's basket.
- binaryorganic 14y agoUpdated: Update: We’ve received word that the new API Terms of Use aren’t as sinister as on first glance. From VentureBeat: We are not prohibiting sites from showing competing services, however we do not want anyone to use Netflix content such as titles and descriptions to advertise a competing service. We’re not prohibiting developers from monetizing their applications by selling them directly to consumers. We will not, however, permit resale of our information in a business-to-business fashion.
- tylerlh 14y agoIt seems quite clear to me that we are in dire need of a redefinition of 'my data' and who owns it. IMO, if my brain thought it up and you aren't paying me -- it's mine.
- dr42 14y agoOT, but I wondered if anyone with the new MacBook Air (either i5 or the i7) has tried Netflix to see if it still sets the fans spinning loudly, or if the processor is able to handle it like the MBP can?