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Installation guide is here: https://github.com/hsitz/VimOrganizer/blob/master/INSTALL.txt https://github.com/hsitz/VimOrganizer/blob/master/INSTALL.tx... It ki

by basil 14y ago

Installation guide is here: https://github.com/hsitz/VimOrganizer/blob/master/INSTALL.txt https://github.com/hsitz/VimOrganizer/blob/master/INSTALL.tx... It kills me that you can't use this plugin fully without Emacs: "FINALLY, install Emacs. Not necessary for basic outlining, agenda searches, and other basic stuff, but it is necessary to do exports to html and PDF (which you will definitely want) as well as other advanced stuff." Anyone know what this "advanced stuff" is?

monk_the_dog 14y ago
Yes. Babel requires emacs. Quote from the article: <quote> VimOrganizer also lets Vim users access Org-babel, a subproject of Org-mode that allows execution of source-code blocks in org-format documents. Uses for Org-babel range from writing technical research papers to simply using a VimOrganizer document as a "language-scratchpad". Over twenty languages are supported, including C, R, Lisp, Python, Perl, Ruby, and others. VimOrganizer calls out to a running Emacs server for Org-babel processing; functionality and speed are essentially the same as when editing with Org-mode in Emacs. </quote> BTW, I love both org-mode and vim. My solution is to use a vim mode in emacs. My preferred one is "evil" (I recently switched from viper+vimpulse, which is also good). Evil lives here: http://gitorious.org/evil/pages/Home http://gitorious.org/evil/pages/Home
- rpearl 14y ago
  How well-made is "evil"? Do you ever have any issues with it because it's not really vim?
  - monk_the_dog 14y ago
    Everything I want is there: text objects, visual mode, windows commands, macros, everything from ex that I use. Try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised. The only two issues I've noticed are: 1) '\c' does not work for case insensitive search 2) I had to install an extra packages to get 'g;' (goto-last-change) and 'C-r' (redo) to work.
  - Derbasti 14y ago
    As far as Vim goes, it is pretty stellar. Pretty much everything I tried is there and works as expected. There are even some Vim plugins that have been recreated for Evil (i.e. surround). As far as Emacs goes, well, it has less problems than any other Vim emulation mode, but it still does not play well with everything. It is workable though.
    - hesitz 14y ago
      I agree EVIL is pretty good, feels much better to me than Viper/Vimpulse. One issue with any Vim emulation in Emacs is the need to create vim-like keybindings for add-ons, like Org-mode. If you don't do this, and if you use many Emacs add-ons, you'll enter Emacs ctrl-key hell despite having decent Vim emulation. Below is newsgroup thread with basics of adding Vim-style keybindings to Emacs/EVIL for Org-mode. I chose to make these sample bindings same as those I use in analogous functions in VimOrganizer. (I'm the author of VimOrganizer.) http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/52815/focus=52816 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/52815/focus=5281...
namidark 14y ago
He had me up until that and this: Thus, to make full use of VimOrganizer you will want to have an Emacs' server running alongside.
- hesitz 14y ago
  I'm the main developer of VimOrganizer. I'm sure other people have had this reaction, but it mostly results from not fully understanding what Org-mode is and how it works. Org-mode is many things to many people, with a feature set that's deep and wide, and even many Org-mode users don't know everything it does, barely scratch the surface. Regarding the issue of running an Emacs server alongside VimOrganizer: Would you rather a tiny Vim project try to duplicate all of Orgmode's functionality when (1) only a small percentage of Org-mode directly involves editing text, (2) many of the major Org-mode features are basically batch operations that export and/or evaluate an entire file at a time, and (3) Emacs is lightweight and functions well as a server for Org-mode batch operations, and (4) Vim's stated philosophy is to co-exist and interoperate with other apps in the Unix toolchain? It's a matter of not reinventing the wheel. Org-mode is a pretty large project, probably approaching 100k lines of code. It's been around many years, heavily developed the entire time and it still presents a quickly moving target, new features and bugfixes added almost daily. What sense does it make to try to duplicate tens of thousands of lines of non-editing related code in a fledgling Vim project? Why not make use of Emacs/Orgmode as a server, a function it does well, and leverage the entire Orgmode project? Although most heavy VimOrganizer uses would want to keep an Emacs server running, they don't ever need to edit a file in Emacs. At most they need to do some minor configuration in the .emacs config file, but that can be done by editing the .emacs file in Vim.

by basil 14y ago

monk_the_dog 14y ago

Yes. Babel requires emacs. Quote from the article: <quote> VimOrganizer also lets Vim users access Org-babel, a subproject of Org-mode that allows execution of source-code blocks in org-format documents. Uses for Org-babel range from writing technical research papers to simply using a VimOrganizer document as a "language-scratchpad". Over twenty languages are supported, including C, R, Lisp, Python, Perl, Ruby, and others. VimOrganizer calls out to a running Emacs server for Org-babel processing; functionality and speed are essentially the same as when editing with Org-mode in Emacs. </quote> BTW, I love both org-mode and vim. My solution is to use a vim mode in emacs. My preferred one is "evil" (I recently switched from viper+vimpulse, which is also good). Evil lives here: http://gitorious.org/evil/pages/Home http://gitorious.org/evil/pages/Home

rpearl 14y ago
How well-made is "evil"? Do you ever have any issues with it because it's not really vim?
- monk_the_dog 14y ago
  Everything I want is there: text objects, visual mode, windows commands, macros, everything from ex that I use. Try it, you'll be pleasantly surprised. The only two issues I've noticed are: 1) '\c' does not work for case insensitive search 2) I had to install an extra packages to get 'g;' (goto-last-change) and 'C-r' (redo) to work.
- Derbasti 14y ago
  As far as Vim goes, it is pretty stellar. Pretty much everything I tried is there and works as expected. There are even some Vim plugins that have been recreated for Evil (i.e. surround). As far as Emacs goes, well, it has less problems than any other Vim emulation mode, but it still does not play well with everything. It is workable though.
  - hesitz 14y ago
    I agree EVIL is pretty good, feels much better to me than Viper/Vimpulse. One issue with any Vim emulation in Emacs is the need to create vim-like keybindings for add-ons, like Org-mode. If you don't do this, and if you use many Emacs add-ons, you'll enter Emacs ctrl-key hell despite having decent Vim emulation. Below is newsgroup thread with basics of adding Vim-style keybindings to Emacs/EVIL for Org-mode. I chose to make these sample bindings same as those I use in analogous functions in VimOrganizer. (I'm the author of VimOrganizer.) http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/52815/focus=52816 http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.orgmode/52815/focus=5281...

namidark 14y ago

He had me up until that and this: Thus, to make full use of VimOrganizer you will want to have an Emacs' server running alongside.

hesitz 14y ago
I'm the main developer of VimOrganizer. I'm sure other people have had this reaction, but it mostly results from not fully understanding what Org-mode is and how it works. Org-mode is many things to many people, with a feature set that's deep and wide, and even many Org-mode users don't know everything it does, barely scratch the surface. Regarding the issue of running an Emacs server alongside VimOrganizer: Would you rather a tiny Vim project try to duplicate all of Orgmode's functionality when (1) only a small percentage of Org-mode directly involves editing text, (2) many of the major Org-mode features are basically batch operations that export and/or evaluate an entire file at a time, and (3) Emacs is lightweight and functions well as a server for Org-mode batch operations, and (4) Vim's stated philosophy is to co-exist and interoperate with other apps in the Unix toolchain? It's a matter of not reinventing the wheel. Org-mode is a pretty large project, probably approaching 100k lines of code. It's been around many years, heavily developed the entire time and it still presents a quickly moving target, new features and bugfixes added almost daily. What sense does it make to try to duplicate tens of thousands of lines of non-editing related code in a fledgling Vim project? Why not make use of Emacs/Orgmode as a server, a function it does well, and leverage the entire Orgmode project? Although most heavy VimOrganizer uses would want to keep an Emacs server running, they don't ever need to edit a file in Emacs. At most they need to do some minor configuration in the .emacs config file, but that can be done by editing the .emacs file in Vim.