5 ms·

How are climate activists, especially just stop oil, so misguided?

nemo44x 2y ago
Read the history of the activist group/network "ACT UP". They used non-violent civil disobedience tactics to raise awareness of AIDS, etc. They utilized and in many cases pioneered dramatic and disruptive actions that gained a lot of attention and helped them achieve their goals. They were so successful that today many activists groups mimic their tactics and that's what you see here. And of course, what worked for them is often aped to detrimental effects. In many cases ACT UP unintentionally created numerous cargo cults.
- jerlam 2y ago
  Too many of these groups seem stuck on "awareness", as if seeing a single poster will instantly sway the reader to their cause, and to succeed they just need more people to see more posters. The reality is that most people have very rational reasons to ignore/oppose the climate protestors and other groups.
  - ninthcat 2y ago
    Protests don't need to change the minds of the public to work. For example, protests still work in non-democratic societies in which public opinion has no bearing on policy. They work by directly exerting pressure on people who make decisions.
- kraftman 2y ago
  I guess I would agree if they were raising awareness for something people arent aware of, but everyone is aware of climate change wether they believe it or not. If their activities highlighted specific areas that need more awareness then that might also be more acceptable, but the only thing the public are aware of is that they are very annoying. Why don't they target oil companies, or politicians, instead of the general public? It's bad enough having your government ignoring you without also having activists target you ostensibly for the same causes you believe in.
  - nemo44x 2y ago
    Like I said, there are cargo cults everywhere now that don't quite get the point and to likely detrimental effect.
bjourne 2y ago
They have exhausted all other options and direct action is all that remains. They aren't misguided, you are.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kraftman 2y ago
  Have they exhausted all other options? They've attacked public spaces, events, and infrastructure, targetted artwork and ancient monuments, but have they actually targetted the causes they are protesting against in any way, or even the politicians that have the power to effect the changes they want to see?
  - Tepix 2y ago
    I think sooner or later we will see the arrival of groups like Children of Kali as described in KSR's book Ministry for the future. It's going to be ugly. If you haven't read the book, there's a nice review at https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2021/07/15/minsitry-future-kim-stanley-robinson-241009 https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2021/07/15/mins...
    - kraftman 2y ago
      it would probably be more effective than mildly frustrating a few commuters though?
- zolbrek 2y ago
  They could form a new political party or join an existing one and take part in the democratic process.
  - krapp 2y ago
    No political party which takes climate change seriously could possibly survive, much less maintain power within a democratic system. People don't want to give up their comforts and luxuries and standard of living, and business interests don't want to do anything to interfere with profits. If it were possible to address this problem through the democratic process, it would have been done long ago, when it might have been possible to avoid disaster. Now the best we can hope for is damage mitigation, but even that requires sacrifices no government would dare even suggest. Democracy doesn't work when people don't care.

Read the history of the activist group/network "ACT UP". They used non-violent civil disobedience tactics to raise awareness of AIDS, etc. They utilized and in many cases pioneered dramatic and disruptive actions that gained a lot of attention and helped them achieve their goals. They were so successful that today many activists groups mimic their tactics and that's what you see here. And of course, what worked for them is often aped to detrimental effects. In many cases ACT UP unintentionally created numerous cargo cults.

jerlam 2y ago
Too many of these groups seem stuck on "awareness", as if seeing a single poster will instantly sway the reader to their cause, and to succeed they just need more people to see more posters. The reality is that most people have very rational reasons to ignore/oppose the climate protestors and other groups.
- ninthcat 2y ago
  Protests don't need to change the minds of the public to work. For example, protests still work in non-democratic societies in which public opinion has no bearing on policy. They work by directly exerting pressure on people who make decisions.
kraftman 2y ago
I guess I would agree if they were raising awareness for something people arent aware of, but everyone is aware of climate change wether they believe it or not. If their activities highlighted specific areas that need more awareness then that might also be more acceptable, but the only thing the public are aware of is that they are very annoying. Why don't they target oil companies, or politicians, instead of the general public? It's bad enough having your government ignoring you without also having activists target you ostensibly for the same causes you believe in.
- nemo44x 2y ago
  Like I said, there are cargo cults everywhere now that don't quite get the point and to likely detrimental effect.

bjourne 2y ago

They have exhausted all other options and direct action is all that remains. They aren't misguided, you are.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kraftman 2y ago
Have they exhausted all other options? They've attacked public spaces, events, and infrastructure, targetted artwork and ancient monuments, but have they actually targetted the causes they are protesting against in any way, or even the politicians that have the power to effect the changes they want to see?
- Tepix 2y ago
  I think sooner or later we will see the arrival of groups like Children of Kali as described in KSR's book Ministry for the future. It's going to be ugly. If you haven't read the book, there's a nice review at https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2021/07/15/minsitry-future-kim-stanley-robinson-241009 https://www.americamagazine.org/arts-culture/2021/07/15/mins...
  - kraftman 2y ago
    it would probably be more effective than mildly frustrating a few commuters though?
zolbrek 2y ago
They could form a new political party or join an existing one and take part in the democratic process.
- krapp 2y ago
  No political party which takes climate change seriously could possibly survive, much less maintain power within a democratic system. People don't want to give up their comforts and luxuries and standard of living, and business interests don't want to do anything to interfere with profits. If it were possible to address this problem through the democratic process, it would have been done long ago, when it might have been possible to avoid disaster. Now the best we can hope for is damage mitigation, but even that requires sacrifices no government would dare even suggest. Democracy doesn't work when people don't care.