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>> this is a fight against america playing world police That is how Dotcom wants it characterized. Everyone else sees a fly-by-night website run by an eccentr

>> this is a fight against america playing world police That is how Dotcom wants it characterized. Everyone else sees a fly-by-night website run by an eccentric millionaire making money by playing fast and loose with the law. It is one thing to be an outlaw subverting oppression by distributing free bread to poor people. It is another to be a bootlegger selling vodka under the table and then throwing huge invite-only parties with the profits.

epolanski 2y ago
I don't think your point stands. How would US citizens would feel if another country, say China, wanted to extradite a US citizen because he allegedly violated Chinese copyright law? Dotcom is absolutely right in saying that US is playing world police.
- tommi 2y ago
  It can be that while US is playing world police, characterising Dotcom's MegaUpload and Mega as a fight against it not a fitting description of them. International crime can be a tough problem to solve. Who gets to decide what is a crime, how it should be judged and punished?
- throwaway290 2y ago
  > How would US citizens would feel if another country, say China, wanted to extradite a US citizen Probably how Swedish citizens felt when China 'extradited' Gui Minhai. At least in US you have due process? See also https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/blog/230000-policing-expands https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/blog/230000-policing-expan.... > US is playing world police NZ and US have a bunch of shared laws, trade and extradition agreements and stuff. It's not like US dropped in and snatched Dotcom without any NZ cooperation. Not world police, just boring international justice.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - epolanski 2y ago
    US copyright laws *are not* international law.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      Copyright laws are not even US laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_internation...
- jajko 2y ago
  Countries extradite criminals all the time for crimes done here or there or anywhere, its just that US stands above literally everybody else, or at least wants to, so its not an equal situation and never was. This is underlined by other US excesses, ie [1] or the fact that US prisons are have many citizens of other states, but there are very few US citizens detained elsewhere (in democratic systems, not used for some political deals). [1] "The Hague Invasion Act", as the act allows the president to order U.S. military action, such as an invasion of the Netherlands, where The Hague is located, to protect American officials and military personnel from prosecution or rescue them from custody. The antithesis of fairness and basic human equality rights.
  - pb7 2y ago
    >the fact that US prisons are have many citizens of other states, but there are very few US citizens detained elsewhere Americans commit exceedingly little crime internationally. Even in ultra-low crime countries, US citizens rank below native citizens per capita. That is probably why.
  - rangestransform 2y ago
    Ratifying the rome statute in the US would be unconstitutional because it violates the sixth amendment right of american servicemembers to a jury trial. I applaud the USA for fiercely defending its citizens' rights, even against the governments of other countries.
- quacksilver 2y ago
  The US usually seem to decline stuff, while the UK will extradite people rapidly to the US. Relatively recent, though involved diplomatic immunity too: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/politics/us-declines-uk-extradition-request/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/politics/us-declines-uk-extra...
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  Depends. Are there actual reasonable grounds to suspect that the US citizen violated copyright law in China? Can China be held to granting them a fair trial with a reasonable punishment (read: not executing them in the courtyard and billing their family for the bullet) being prescribed if the US citizen is found guilty? If those two things are present... well, then it is what it is. Now, I doubt China would be able to provide the fair trial part, but if we're trying to compare your situation to what Kim Dotcom is going through, it's a question we have to answer. I'd much rather take my chances in a US courtroom than a PRC courtroom.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    > Can China be held to granting them a fair trial with a reasonable punishment Hmm, excellent question. And for context, America is going to give Kim Dotcom a functional life sentence in what Americans like to call "pound-you-in-the-ass prison". For sharing files. He'll be given more years than harsher than most murderers.
    - hombre_fatal 2y ago
      I find this to be a pretty good counterpoint. Dragging a foreigner (especially) into the country to be put into a metal cage for violating copyright is disgusting.
    - lenerdenator 2y ago
      > And for context, America is going to give Kim Dotcom a functional life sentence in what Americans like to call "pound-you-in-the-ass prison". Unlikely. He'll probably be sentenced to a minimum/low/medium-security prison facility/farm. Over 80% of American federal inmates are in a facility meeting one of those classifications [1]. The federal sentence (using that for comparison since the federal government carries out IP law in the US) for first-degree murder in the US is either life in prison or death by lethal injection. Dotcom is exceedingly unlikely to spend the rest of his life in prison and is obviously not eligible for the death penalty. He'd probably be looking at a decade or two at most. Obviously, that sucks for him, but your assertion that he'll be treated worse than murderers and be SA'd regularly in a prison housing violent inmates is simply not true. [1]https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sec_levels.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sec_l...
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Agreed. I don’t at all see Mega in the same light as SciHub for example.

epolanski 2y ago

I don't think your point stands. How would US citizens would feel if another country, say China, wanted to extradite a US citizen because he allegedly violated Chinese copyright law? Dotcom is absolutely right in saying that US is playing world police.

tommi 2y ago
It can be that while US is playing world police, characterising Dotcom's MegaUpload and Mega as a fight against it not a fitting description of them. International crime can be a tough problem to solve. Who gets to decide what is a crime, how it should be judged and punished?
throwaway290 2y ago
> How would US citizens would feel if another country, say China, wanted to extradite a US citizen Probably how Swedish citizens felt when China 'extradited' Gui Minhai. At least in US you have due process? See also https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/blog/230000-policing-expands https://safeguarddefenders.com/en/blog/230000-policing-expan.... > US is playing world police NZ and US have a bunch of shared laws, trade and extradition agreements and stuff. It's not like US dropped in and snatched Dotcom without any NZ cooperation. Not world police, just boring international justice.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- epolanski 2y ago
  US copyright laws *are not* international law.
  - throwaway290 2y ago
    Copyright laws are not even US laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_international_copyright_agreements https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parties_to_internation...
jajko 2y ago
Countries extradite criminals all the time for crimes done here or there or anywhere, its just that US stands above literally everybody else, or at least wants to, so its not an equal situation and never was. This is underlined by other US excesses, ie [1] or the fact that US prisons are have many citizens of other states, but there are very few US citizens detained elsewhere (in democratic systems, not used for some political deals). [1] "The Hague Invasion Act", as the act allows the president to order U.S. military action, such as an invasion of the Netherlands, where The Hague is located, to protect American officials and military personnel from prosecution or rescue them from custody. The antithesis of fairness and basic human equality rights.
- pb7 2y ago
  >the fact that US prisons are have many citizens of other states, but there are very few US citizens detained elsewhere Americans commit exceedingly little crime internationally. Even in ultra-low crime countries, US citizens rank below native citizens per capita. That is probably why.
- rangestransform 2y ago
  Ratifying the rome statute in the US would be unconstitutional because it violates the sixth amendment right of american servicemembers to a jury trial. I applaud the USA for fiercely defending its citizens' rights, even against the governments of other countries.
quacksilver 2y ago
The US usually seem to decline stuff, while the UK will extradite people rapidly to the US. Relatively recent, though involved diplomatic immunity too: https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/politics/us-declines-uk-extradition-request/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/23/politics/us-declines-uk-extra...
lenerdenator 2y ago
Depends. Are there actual reasonable grounds to suspect that the US citizen violated copyright law in China? Can China be held to granting them a fair trial with a reasonable punishment (read: not executing them in the courtyard and billing their family for the bullet) being prescribed if the US citizen is found guilty? If those two things are present... well, then it is what it is. Now, I doubt China would be able to provide the fair trial part, but if we're trying to compare your situation to what Kim Dotcom is going through, it's a question we have to answer. I'd much rather take my chances in a US courtroom than a PRC courtroom.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  > Can China be held to granting them a fair trial with a reasonable punishment Hmm, excellent question. And for context, America is going to give Kim Dotcom a functional life sentence in what Americans like to call "pound-you-in-the-ass prison". For sharing files. He'll be given more years than harsher than most murderers.
  - hombre_fatal 2y ago
    I find this to be a pretty good counterpoint. Dragging a foreigner (especially) into the country to be put into a metal cage for violating copyright is disgusting.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    > And for context, America is going to give Kim Dotcom a functional life sentence in what Americans like to call "pound-you-in-the-ass prison". Unlikely. He'll probably be sentenced to a minimum/low/medium-security prison facility/farm. Over 80% of American federal inmates are in a facility meeting one of those classifications [1]. The federal sentence (using that for comparison since the federal government carries out IP law in the US) for first-degree murder in the US is either life in prison or death by lethal injection. Dotcom is exceedingly unlikely to spend the rest of his life in prison and is obviously not eligible for the death penalty. He'd probably be looking at a decade or two at most. Obviously, that sucks for him, but your assertion that he'll be treated worse than murderers and be SA'd regularly in a prison housing violent inmates is simply not true. [1]https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sec_levels.jsp https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_sec_l...

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Agreed. I don’t at all see Mega in the same light as SciHub for example.