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How does this compare to CB radio in terms of the distance it can operate over? The two radio boards seem a lot less capable but looks can be deceiving given h

How does this compare to CB radio in terms of the distance it can operate over? The two radio boards seem a lot less capable but looks can be deceiving given how ignorant I am over these matters.

Joel_Mckay 2y ago
Basic LoRA can do >7km in the 25mW ranges, but the bandwidth is minimal. Note, under some situations the range can hit hundreds of km. CB/11meter range depends on many parameters, but even at 4W you would be lucky to reach beyond 80km. The main difference is Lora Gateways receiver sensitivity is <-139dBm, and can recover data from what looks like the noise floor in most hardware. If Lora had at least 3 manufacturers, I would have stuck it in every station years ago. Cheers, =3
- ale42 2y ago
  There are some amateur radio operators who operate in QRP (max. 5 W power) and have a DXCC award (so they have contacted at least 100 different countries). So the range is much more than 80 km, especially if you use digital modes able to recover signals you can't even hear (like FT8 or WSPR)... but bandwidth will be very low.
  - Joel_Mckay 2y ago
    Tropospheric ducting is rare on 11meter, but indeed Hams have achieved some pretty creative antenna setups in HF. It is a deep rabbit hole, but in the spirit of comparing apples-to-apples... Also, the ERP limits on FCC stamped consumer modules is fairly low for unlicensed users. i.e. many Lora modules have iffy certified antennas for compliance reasons. Cheers, =3
Rhapso 2y ago
Well the range of packet radio over CB in the US is "We will hunt you down and arrest you". In general, the links supported range from line-of-sight to a few miles. If it can move 5 bits/second and you can make a link-layer abstraction (outputs the packet from 1 sender at a time) Reticulum will make the rest of the network work as intended.
- alnwlsn 2y ago
  I know it's against the spirit of the thing (and probably against the law somehow), but I wonder what a path of data -> encode to text -> text to speech -> radio -> speech to text -> decode -> data would be like?
  - Rhapso 2y ago
    We call it a "numbers station" right now. Honestly LLMs might make for an interesting means of stenography. Encoding encrypted data in vectors that can be rendered to coherent statements and back.
klinquist 2y ago
Lots of complexity with that question. CB is voice, this is digital. Typically, digital communications can "travel further for a given watt" because the power is "focused" on a smaller amount of bandwidth. CB can propagate (be bounced off of layers of the atmosphere) to get a significant distance, but it depends on atmospheric conditions, time of day, etc. So not reliable. I've talked to Uruguay on my ham radio on 4 watts (HF, 10-meter band), but once again, I can't do that reliably/every day. LoRA is 900mhz (in the US) so you don't get atmospheric propagation.. but with the right antenna (height is might!), you can get several miles in a city environment with only a watt or two... so forming a mesh is what allows you to achieve further distances. It is not legal to encrypt CB or ham radio communications.

How does this compare to CB radio in terms of the distance it can operate over? The two radio boards seem a lot less capable but looks can be deceiving given how ignorant I am over these matters.

Joel_Mckay 2y ago

Basic LoRA can do >7km in the 25mW ranges, but the bandwidth is minimal. Note, under some situations the range can hit hundreds of km. CB/11meter range depends on many parameters, but even at 4W you would be lucky to reach beyond 80km. The main difference is Lora Gateways receiver sensitivity is <-139dBm, and can recover data from what looks like the noise floor in most hardware. If Lora had at least 3 manufacturers, I would have stuck it in every station years ago. Cheers, =3

ale42 2y ago
There are some amateur radio operators who operate in QRP (max. 5 W power) and have a DXCC award (so they have contacted at least 100 different countries). So the range is much more than 80 km, especially if you use digital modes able to recover signals you can't even hear (like FT8 or WSPR)... but bandwidth will be very low.
- Joel_Mckay 2y ago
  Tropospheric ducting is rare on 11meter, but indeed Hams have achieved some pretty creative antenna setups in HF. It is a deep rabbit hole, but in the spirit of comparing apples-to-apples... Also, the ERP limits on FCC stamped consumer modules is fairly low for unlicensed users. i.e. many Lora modules have iffy certified antennas for compliance reasons. Cheers, =3

Rhapso 2y ago

Well the range of packet radio over CB in the US is "We will hunt you down and arrest you". In general, the links supported range from line-of-sight to a few miles. If it can move 5 bits/second and you can make a link-layer abstraction (outputs the packet from 1 sender at a time) Reticulum will make the rest of the network work as intended.

alnwlsn 2y ago
I know it's against the spirit of the thing (and probably against the law somehow), but I wonder what a path of data -> encode to text -> text to speech -> radio -> speech to text -> decode -> data would be like?
- Rhapso 2y ago
  We call it a "numbers station" right now. Honestly LLMs might make for an interesting means of stenography. Encoding encrypted data in vectors that can be rendered to coherent statements and back.

klinquist 2y ago

Lots of complexity with that question. CB is voice, this is digital. Typically, digital communications can "travel further for a given watt" because the power is "focused" on a smaller amount of bandwidth. CB can propagate (be bounced off of layers of the atmosphere) to get a significant distance, but it depends on atmospheric conditions, time of day, etc. So not reliable. I've talked to Uruguay on my ham radio on 4 watts (HF, 10-meter band), but once again, I can't do that reliably/every day. LoRA is 900mhz (in the US) so you don't get atmospheric propagation.. but with the right antenna (height is might!), you can get several miles in a city environment with only a watt or two... so forming a mesh is what allows you to achieve further distances. It is not legal to encrypt CB or ham radio communications.