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I love the UK Gov for being so transparent and self suficient on their digital infrastructure compared to my developed EU country where they usually just outsou

I love the UK Gov for being so transparent and self suficient on their digital infrastructure compared to my developed EU country where they usually just outsource it to some major consultancy, who's in bed with the politicians, which then farms it out to the cheapest bidder in Eastern Europe for 10x the amount of money it would cost to make it themselves and getting 10x worse quality, just so that taxpayer money gets funneled into the politically friendly business pockets. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses/externalities. I remember there was a heated debate last year about greed-flation in the country as people blamed the large retailers for simultaneously jacking up prices in sync leading to much higher prices on the same goods compared to neighboring Germany and the government said "well, we could build an online price comparison system to track prices and then check the validity of these claims, but oh shucks it's probably gonna take us a few years and double digit million euros...", and then in response some guy builds it in a weekends and posts it on Github for free, showing how corrupt, clueless and scummy closed source government funded digital projects are.

dijit 2y ago
Given that hyperscaler cloud providers can be in the 5x-11x cost increase territory; and AWS/Azure are definitely guilty of lobbying governments.... is your comment sarcastic? EDIT: downvotes? What did I say that's untrue? Are so many people really employed by these hyperscalers that they go around downvoting things against them? Calm down- you'll have a job.
- _joel 2y ago
  They used to be several other uk based public cloud providers gov.uk used through gCloud.
_joel 2y ago
Oh, we can still outsource like the best of them, just look up the NHS Track and Trace app to see how badly we can do it (or line the pockets of certain people, whichever you prefer).
- edent 2y ago
  Hello. I worked on that app. You are wrong. Firstly, "Track and Trace" is what the Post Office do. Perhaps you're thinking of "Test and Trace"? Secondly, the UK Government hasn't had app development skills in-house for a long time - see https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2013/03/12/were-not-appy-not-appy-at-all/ https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2013/03/12/were-not-appy-not-appy-at... - so there was little choice but to use an external provider. Thirdly, the initial version of the app was built by an external team who were already engaged with DHSC. They had won a competitive tender (which was published) but, as I'm sure you can understand, there wasn't time to run a new one for the Contact Tracing app. Fourthly, if you have evidence that the development of the app - which was done quickly, with all source code and design documents published as open source, and which saved lives (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-02-22-nhs-covid-19-app-saved-estimated-10000-lives-its-first-year-research-finds https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-02-22-nhs-covid-19-app-saved-...) - was somehow corrupt, I'm sure we'd all like to see it. Fifthly, if you're about to say "£37bn" - have a read of this https://fullfact.org/health/NHS-test-and-trace-app-37-billion-instagram/ https://fullfact.org/health/NHS-test-and-trace-app-37-billio...
  - seagullriffic 2y ago
    Did this app have anything to do with the huge QR codes which encoded far too much information? https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/how-not-to-qr-nhs-c19-app.html https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/how-not-to-qr-nhs-c19-app.html
    - edent 2y ago
      Yes - another bit that I worked on (albeit tangentially). The QR code stuff was an interesting one. There was a worry that people would generate fraudulent codes - hence the weird (in my opinion) signing requirements. Similarly, with a URl there was a risk that people would open the page and think that was all they needed to do. Hence a code designed to be read by a specific app. I think (and you'll have to forgive my slightly hazy memory of a difficult time) that it was based on the same code New Zealand were using for their check-in service.
akimbostrawman 2y ago
A foreign hosting provider like AWS is the opposite oft self sufficent
- fleischhauf 2y ago
  while I agree, I think being able to do this by themselves is already way way ahead of German administration capabilities. So you need to see this from a positive angle. I for one am jealous.
  - croes 2y ago
    I they try they get sacked by lobbyists.
seagullriffic 2y ago
Unfortunately this very application, Gov.uk Notify, is currently being used by Councils to send emails to residents directing them to an outsourced company's website, https://www.householdresponse.com https://www.householdresponse.com, to input sensitive details about where they live. The emails are phishy to the extreme and there's no indication or way to verify that it's an official service. See for example https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/uk-gov-keeps-repeating-its-voter-registration-website-is-not-a-scam/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/uk-gov-keeps-... While some parts of Gov.uk are done well, there are still terrible practices everywhere due to cheapness and ignorance and presumably because the Gov UK people can't do everything, unfortunately, even though it would be cheaper and better if they did.

dijit 2y ago

Given that hyperscaler cloud providers can be in the 5x-11x cost increase territory; and AWS/Azure are definitely guilty of lobbying governments.... is your comment sarcastic? EDIT: downvotes? What did I say that's untrue? Are so many people really employed by these hyperscalers that they go around downvoting things against them? Calm down- you'll have a job.

_joel 2y ago
They used to be several other uk based public cloud providers gov.uk used through gCloud.

_joel 2y ago

Oh, we can still outsource like the best of them, just look up the NHS Track and Trace app to see how badly we can do it (or line the pockets of certain people, whichever you prefer).

edent 2y ago
Hello. I worked on that app. You are wrong. Firstly, "Track and Trace" is what the Post Office do. Perhaps you're thinking of "Test and Trace"? Secondly, the UK Government hasn't had app development skills in-house for a long time - see https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2013/03/12/were-not-appy-not-appy-at-all/ https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2013/03/12/were-not-appy-not-appy-at... - so there was little choice but to use an external provider. Thirdly, the initial version of the app was built by an external team who were already engaged with DHSC. They had won a competitive tender (which was published) but, as I'm sure you can understand, there wasn't time to run a new one for the Contact Tracing app. Fourthly, if you have evidence that the development of the app - which was done quickly, with all source code and design documents published as open source, and which saved lives (https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-02-22-nhs-covid-19-app-saved-estimated-10000-lives-its-first-year-research-finds https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-02-22-nhs-covid-19-app-saved-...) - was somehow corrupt, I'm sure we'd all like to see it. Fifthly, if you're about to say "£37bn" - have a read of this https://fullfact.org/health/NHS-test-and-trace-app-37-billion-instagram/ https://fullfact.org/health/NHS-test-and-trace-app-37-billio...
- seagullriffic 2y ago
  Did this app have anything to do with the huge QR codes which encoded far too much information? https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/how-not-to-qr-nhs-c19-app.html https://www.revk.uk/2020/09/how-not-to-qr-nhs-c19-app.html
  - edent 2y ago
    Yes - another bit that I worked on (albeit tangentially). The QR code stuff was an interesting one. There was a worry that people would generate fraudulent codes - hence the weird (in my opinion) signing requirements. Similarly, with a URl there was a risk that people would open the page and think that was all they needed to do. Hence a code designed to be read by a specific app. I think (and you'll have to forgive my slightly hazy memory of a difficult time) that it was based on the same code New Zealand were using for their check-in service.

akimbostrawman 2y ago

A foreign hosting provider like AWS is the opposite oft self sufficent

fleischhauf 2y ago
while I agree, I think being able to do this by themselves is already way way ahead of German administration capabilities. So you need to see this from a positive angle. I for one am jealous.
- croes 2y ago
  I they try they get sacked by lobbyists.

seagullriffic 2y ago

Unfortunately this very application, Gov.uk Notify, is currently being used by Councils to send emails to residents directing them to an outsourced company's website, https://www.householdresponse.com https://www.householdresponse.com, to input sensitive details about where they live. The emails are phishy to the extreme and there's no indication or way to verify that it's an official service. See for example https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/uk-gov-keeps-repeating-its-voter-registration-website-is-not-a-scam/ https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/uk-gov-keeps-... While some parts of Gov.uk are done well, there are still terrible practices everywhere due to cheapness and ignorance and presumably because the Gov UK people can't do everything, unfortunately, even though it would be cheaper and better if they did.