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Really weird article. Starting with the whole claim that the tunnel built is the Las Vegas Loop (actually known by LVCC) which is the same as the 93 stop full r
by Veedrac 2y ago
Really weird article. Starting with the whole claim that the tunnel built is the Las Vegas Loop (actually known by LVCC) which is the same as the 93 stop full rollout (actually known as Vegas Loop); they are connected but the terminology was very muddying. This makes it really confusing when they're eg. objecting to calling it a underground system and not really making clear what they're talking about (Vegas Loop is very clearly an underground system, the whole loop is underground).
There's a bunch of stuff where both they complain about LVCC not being very much (which is true, it's their first track, and while it was much more affordable than the competing bid and has exceeded requirements, it's also super short) and also in the same post talk about how the operating room doesn't stack up to other mass transit operating rooms (yes, why would it?).
The fire safety comparisons are reasonable but I would still like to ask when people make comparisons with historic tunnel fires, for said people to actually go look up why said historic tunnel fires were so bad. Vegas Loop isn't going to be carrying trucks full of flour and margarine alongside vehicles that stop working when said goods catch on fire. Ultimately the Loop is safe largely by combination of not including the set of things that make tunnels dangerous combined with having small vehicles with good failure isolation (electric powertrains, air filtration, etc.).
Comments about capacity are also a bit weird. LVCC's capacity is more than it needs. Vegas Loop's capacity is not as large as inordinately expensive subway systems, but also it's not an inordinately expensive subway system, and its claimed capacity compares favourably to many existing rail systems across the US. Maybe it's because they misread the passengers per hour stat as a passengers per day stat? That is a big difference!
- tsimionescu 2y agoI hope you realize that lithium-ion battery fires are much worse than margarine or flour fires, and almost impossible to extinguish, especially in the confines of a tunnel. And while prices might look good for the USA (I'm not sure), they are gigantic when compared to similar projects in Europe. And a mass-transport car tunnel has exactly 0 advantages over a rail tunnel.
- Veedrac 2y agoHow hard it is to extinguish is vastly, vastly less important than ‘does it stop people safely escaping’ and ‘does it overwhelm the safety equipment’. It is obvious that having a huge goods fire from a commercial truck that shuts down people's vehicles is dangerous; that directly leads to death and directly prevents rescue. It is obvious that having isolated, separately functioning vehicles that can drive away, and a fire from a specific, planned-for factor of an understood quantity has a comparatively low potential for causing death.
- collingreen 2y ago"Obviously" is doing a lot of work here. I liked the article and thought it was a fun peek deeper into the regulatory and safety manual side of things. You attacking it for being really weird and then about how _obviously_ it is or isn't certain ways compared to historic fires in other tunnels feels forced and out of place to me.
- Veedrac 2y agoI said the fire safety comparisons were reasonable and don't think, nor did I state, that the article was actively bad there. My pushback here was to the HN comment claiming the risk was much worse than the historic comparisons, which the article didn't do. I agree the article was fun and had charm. My criticisms were more narrow than that.
- spdif899 2y agoNoting the vehicles driven in the tunnel are the Model Y and X, which are both equipped with a massive HEPA filter and an HVAC mode that pressurizes the passenger compartment while routing all incoming air through the filter. This is designed to allow owners to drive through a wildfire, for example, and in testing has performed quite well. I would love to see a video of testing the scenario discussed here. Enclosed tunnel with poor ventilation and fire safety equipment, the car in front of you catches fire, can you just sit there perfectly fine?