3 ms·

How about, all income is taxed similarly and a livable minimum wage? Tip culture is a vestige of a feudal and racist past. https://www.politico.com/magazine/s

• JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > How about, all income is taxed similarly and a livable minimum wage? What does this mean? Flat tax? How do you define income? Do unrealised gains count? How granular do we get with livability? Ad absurdum, would this scheme work across the entire planet? If not, why would it work in Mississippi and Massachussetts? Your principles are solid. But "similarly" and "livable" econmpass the entire Overton window.
  • bruce511 2y ago
    Similary does not necessarily mean a flat rate. Or indeed any rate (the minimum rate on a sliding scale can be 0). Imagine a world where a hairdresser (for example) tells you the price of the service. You pay that number. The worker is paid a fixed wage. (Ideally a wage high enough that you can live on 1 job.) That person starts paying tax on income once they reach a certain level etc. It may surprise you that most of the world uses this system. What happens in Mississippi et al is already the "weird exception".
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    • JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Imagine a world where a hairdresser (for example) tells you the price of the service. You pay that number. The worker is paid a fixed wage. (Ideally a wage high enough that you can live on 1 job.) That person starts paying tax on income once they reach a certain level etc You're describing every OECD country. The only novelty America adds is the sales tax after, which is a labelling matter. > may surprise you that most of the world uses this system What did you describe that amounts to a system? My point is fair and similar isn't a system description, it's a vision statement at best. Also, are you seriously arguing about the livability of American wages on a quality of life basis relative to the entire planet? Because if you look at the poorest 10% of Americans, their average disposable income is positive [1]. That doesn't mean there aren't huge issues, nor that the average explains every high-COL city. But having any dispoable income, by definition, means your income is high enough to live on. [1] https://www.bea.gov/data/special-topics/distribution-of-personal-income https://www.bea.gov/data/special-topics/distribution-of-pers...
  • r00fus 2y ago
    "Taxed similarly" means a standard progressive tax, but "tips income" and "capital gains" are not given preferential tax treatment. All income becomes fungible and eligible for taxation normally. You can still have special tax treatment for things like retirement or medical benefits (in a perfect world the government Livable really means, someone on minimum wage should be able to afford housing and food/etc in a given area. Whether that means gov subsidized housing (e.g. HK residents pay like 300USD/mo rent) or a higher minimum wage is an implementation detail. Taken together, these would greatly reduce the income inequality (Gini coefficient) and lead to a more fair and stable society.
• bruce511 2y ago
  As a non-american I'm aware of the difference in tipping culture between here and there. While there are pros and cons for tipping, as a consumer I vastly prefer our system here (basically tipping is only expected in restaurants and 10% is considered plenty.) Other people are tipped occasionally, but its rare and mostly unexpected. People are paid on the basis that they aren't tipped. In the US it seems the opposite. As an employer I can reduce wages claiming "you'll make it up in tips". Patrons, aware of this, make random (20%+) donations to assist. Now the employer can use the "tips are better, no tax" argument. I get that everyone wants to pay less tax. I'm not sure that tax policy which encourages "taxing" customers on an individual basis to the detriment of workers getting a standard, living, wage is necessarily in anyone's best long-term interest. This approach will have long-term unexpected consequences. And I suspect that will be good for employers, bad for servers and patrons.
  • shiroiushi 2y ago
    As an American living in Japan, your system sounds utterly stupid too. Here, it's simple: the restaurant has a menu. Items on the menu each have a price that includes sales tax. You order items and eat them. When you're done, they give you a bill with a list of the items, the advertised prices, and the total of those prices. You then pay the bill. The main exception (and it is annoying) is some places that have "otoshi", which is some small, cheap dish of something you didn't ask for that you get when you sit down, and they tack onto the bill. It's basically a table charge. But there's a warning on the menu about it.
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