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Why? You'd probably have better outcomes for everyone with more information. Unsafe drivers might start reigning in their bad habits because it is costing them

Why? You'd probably have better outcomes for everyone with more information. Unsafe drivers might start reigning in their bad habits because it is costing them money every month, and safe drivers will save money. Seems like a win-win. I'd love it if my dash cam could do ALPR and send a video to the registered insurance agency when I see some absolutely ludicrous driving.

klyrs 2y ago
In this model, what incentivizes safe drivers to have insurance? And then when a "safe driver" wipes out in a freak snow storm and racks up a million dollars in damages that they can't afford to pay, where's the win-win?
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  The same thing that incentivizes them right now, legal requirements to maintain a certain minimum amount of auto liability insurance in order to be able to legally drive. Which, by the way, is currently far less than a million dollars in every jurisdiction I know. https://www.autoinsurance.org/car-insurance-requirements/ https://www.autoinsurance.org/car-insurance-requirements/
  - simcup 2y ago
    may i introduce you to the jurisdiction of germany? 7.5m for personal injury, 1.3m for property damage and 50k for ?financial loss? (ger:reiner vermögensschaden) [1][2]. granted that's in euro so exchange rates are to be considered [1] https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/deckungssumme-kfz-haftpflicht/ https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/deckungssumme-kfz-haftpflich... [2] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pflvg/anlage.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pflvg/anlage.html edit: as a point of comparison, i can't find it at moment but i think i remember my last car insurance was covering 100m for personal insuries
    - lotsofpulp 2y ago
      That’s amazing, the US plays around in $10k to $50k ranges.
      - simcup 2y ago
        out of curiosity: how much are you guys paying per month? i had, at that moment, 7 years of no accidents and the 9/1999 version of [1] and was at ~25euro/month [1] https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/gebrauchtwagenkauf/gebrauchtwageninfos/details/58/renault-scenic-1996-2003/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/...
        lotsofpulp 2y ago
        $50 per month for $500,000 of liability only insurance for 5,000 miles per year. Since it is only liability insurance, the type of car I have does not matter. I have 20 years of no accidents or insurance claims. I assume countries where healthcare is covered more extensively, such as Germany, have lower premiums? Although, I think Germany is health insurance covered healthcare, so I wonder if a German health insurance company would sue the auto insurer of an at fault driver to recover healthcare costs. In that case, it would be similar to the USA.
        simcup 2y ago
        interesting, in germany model of the car, the expirience (age) of the driver and the years of not having your insurance cover something [1] play heavily into the amount of premiums you are paying. also who is "covered"[2] by that insurance and the km you drive in a year are considered. [1] trivia: because of this sometimes people cover damages, even realtivly high ones, out of pocket because it saves them money in the long run. [2] you say who (only you or more people) is driving the car and in practice the relevant fact is if one of the drivers using the car is under 25 and/or is still in "Probezeit" (?trial period?)
  - klyrs 2y ago
    If the market is efficient, why do you need the force of state violence to maintain it?
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  The incentive would be being able to pay very little to get coverage which insures you even for the circumstances where a safe driver would crash. Wouldn't a safe driver who was considering unwisely dropping coverage be more likely to drop coverage if coverage was expensive(because they are subsidizing unsafe drivers), as opposed to if it was cheap?
- edflsafoiewq 2y ago
  It smooths the costs out over time, ie. you regularly pay a fixed amount instead of having random huge bills you may not be able to cover.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
If I can't have any privacy I'll shoot myself, which is a worse outcome for me
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  I'm not justifying the specifics of your own car ratting you out behind your back, merely the idea of having more data would let insurance companies segment users based on driving habits.
- quantified 2y ago
  As Eric Schmidt of Google noted long ago, your privacy is already dead. License plate readers are all over the place. Please don't shoot yourself, and good luck to you.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    Eric Schmidt can eat poop
saagarjha 2y ago
Because of the obvious privacy implications, as well as the negative impact it has on the perception of driving. When you enable very precise insurance billing you get all sorts of weird behaviors like “I don’t want to drive through there because I’ll take a hit on my rate” or “slowing down to stop in a way people expect me to is consider a mark against me by the insurance provider, so I will do something surprising”. I think Tesla has (or used to have?) a “driving score” and it often incentivized bad driving that was locally “good” but bad in the context of everyone else on the road.

klyrs 2y ago

In this model, what incentivizes safe drivers to have insurance? And then when a "safe driver" wipes out in a freak snow storm and racks up a million dollars in damages that they can't afford to pay, where's the win-win?

lotsofpulp 2y ago
The same thing that incentivizes them right now, legal requirements to maintain a certain minimum amount of auto liability insurance in order to be able to legally drive. Which, by the way, is currently far less than a million dollars in every jurisdiction I know. https://www.autoinsurance.org/car-insurance-requirements/ https://www.autoinsurance.org/car-insurance-requirements/
- simcup 2y ago
  may i introduce you to the jurisdiction of germany? 7.5m for personal injury, 1.3m for property damage and 50k for ?financial loss? (ger:reiner vermögensschaden) [1][2]. granted that's in euro so exchange rates are to be considered [1] https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/deckungssumme-kfz-haftpflicht/ https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/deckungssumme-kfz-haftpflich... [2] https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pflvg/anlage.html https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/pflvg/anlage.html edit: as a point of comparison, i can't find it at moment but i think i remember my last car insurance was covering 100m for personal insuries
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    That’s amazing, the US plays around in $10k to $50k ranges.
    - simcup 2y ago
      out of curiosity: how much are you guys paying per month? i had, at that moment, 7 years of no accidents and the 9/1999 version of [1] and was at ~25euro/month [1] https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/gebrauchtwagenkauf/gebrauchtwageninfos/details/58/renault-scenic-1996-2003/ https://www.adac.de/rund-ums-fahrzeug/auto-kaufen-verkaufen/...
      - lotsofpulp 2y ago
        $50 per month for $500,000 of liability only insurance for 5,000 miles per year. Since it is only liability insurance, the type of car I have does not matter. I have 20 years of no accidents or insurance claims. I assume countries where healthcare is covered more extensively, such as Germany, have lower premiums? Although, I think Germany is health insurance covered healthcare, so I wonder if a German health insurance company would sue the auto insurer of an at fault driver to recover healthcare costs. In that case, it would be similar to the USA.
        simcup 2y ago
        interesting, in germany model of the car, the expirience (age) of the driver and the years of not having your insurance cover something [1] play heavily into the amount of premiums you are paying. also who is "covered"[2] by that insurance and the km you drive in a year are considered. [1] trivia: because of this sometimes people cover damages, even realtivly high ones, out of pocket because it saves them money in the long run. [2] you say who (only you or more people) is driving the car and in practice the relevant fact is if one of the drivers using the car is under 25 and/or is still in "Probezeit" (?trial period?)
- klyrs 2y ago
  If the market is efficient, why do you need the force of state violence to maintain it?
IncreasePosts 2y ago
The incentive would be being able to pay very little to get coverage which insures you even for the circumstances where a safe driver would crash. Wouldn't a safe driver who was considering unwisely dropping coverage be more likely to drop coverage if coverage was expensive(because they are subsidizing unsafe drivers), as opposed to if it was cheap?
edflsafoiewq 2y ago
It smooths the costs out over time, ie. you regularly pay a fixed amount instead of having random huge bills you may not be able to cover.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago

If I can't have any privacy I'll shoot myself, which is a worse outcome for me

IncreasePosts 2y ago
I'm not justifying the specifics of your own car ratting you out behind your back, merely the idea of having more data would let insurance companies segment users based on driving habits.
quantified 2y ago
As Eric Schmidt of Google noted long ago, your privacy is already dead. License plate readers are all over the place. Please don't shoot yourself, and good luck to you.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
  Eric Schmidt can eat poop

saagarjha 2y ago

Because of the obvious privacy implications, as well as the negative impact it has on the perception of driving. When you enable very precise insurance billing you get all sorts of weird behaviors like “I don’t want to drive through there because I’ll take a hit on my rate” or “slowing down to stop in a way people expect me to is consider a mark against me by the insurance provider, so I will do something surprising”. I think Tesla has (or used to have?) a “driving score” and it often incentivized bad driving that was locally “good” but bad in the context of everyone else on the road.