4 ms·

I am 40 and have three children that are teenagers. They are the most important part of my life, have been transformative in my life and would do it over in a s

I am 40 and have three children that are teenagers. They are the most important part of my life, have been transformative in my life and would do it over in a second. I did zero family planning because I was in a position where having a child was just assumed as part of life and I could afford it (most can). I wasn’t pressured or forced by my community to, but I didn’t actively try to prevent it once I was married. What I describe above was basically the way people lived with respect to “family planning” since all biological history unto the last few hundred years - namely they didn’t do any The world has changed in the last 100 years - likely for the better - in that we’re now intentional and forceful about consentful sex, accessible birth control, accessible abortion etc…such that fertility isn’t just taken for granted and is fully in the hands (ideally) of the birth mother. The result is that most of my peers on the other hand either have one or zero kids. Why? Cause they actively tried not to have kids. Now the ones who want them are struggling with IVF or HRT etc… and having even one is a blessing. It’s a new world and all the old assumptions about human life don’t hold because we’ve been so successful in building systems and controls for what we’re previously magical, mystical processes.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago
I'm 35 with two children and completely agree with you. The sad state of things is that is not assumed anymore you will have children (the opposite). For example, there used to be many family movies (movies that both adults and children could enjoy), but now I can't find many. There are kids movies or adults movies, but family movies are more rare. None of my friends in 2 countries had children (I'm an immigrant). That's shocking, all families with children I had to meet after I had them. Anyway lucky services for families are strong and we can enjoy the time together, but my prospective growing up was to share this also with my friends, so the realization it wouldn't be the case was sad. All of them are losing so much.
happytoexplain 2y ago
This is worded in a way that is a little confusing to me. "Not planning" to have children because "having a child was just assumed", and just letting it happen whenever it happens, is still an explicit plan to have children, regardless of whether it falls under the umbrella of "family planning" as a formal term. Now, people are explicitly deciding not to have children. This would be true regardless of how actively or inactively people used to approach child-having.
- AndrewKemendo 2y ago
  Yes well that’s the point Until the 1970s there was no reliable way to decide to not have children while still being sexually active. That’s a well researched and documented change in biology that continues to be ignored for how massively impactful it has been on society. We take it for granted that you can have regular sex and not have a kid as a result. That’s extraordinarily new and powerful in human history. Said another way: The base rate of likelihood of having a child as a result of having sex has dropped to ~1% given the prevalence of oral contraception (99% with perfect use + Plan-B) and abortion (for gaps in perfect contraceptive use) from ~20% which was the failure rate of the most successful method of interruption + synchronization with menstrual cycle, prior to oc. A 20x drop in desired children is non-trivial and reflects a 20x base rate change.
lurking15 2y ago
> in that we’re now intentional and forceful about consentful sex, accessible birth control, accessible abortion etc I guess this is Progressive in the 1920s sense (as much as the faux-sophisticates think they've outgrown the past, they've really just doubled-down), since the black population would have been much larger now otherwise
- AndrewKemendo 2y ago
  This is as close to a dog whistle as I think is probably still socially allowable. However your supposition is so fraught that it’s not worth a cogent response other than highlighting that the concept that abortion is “Black Genocide” has been long recognized by the black community as being a flag that white progressives like to wave to tokenize and use black women as pawns for their puritanical ideas.
  - lurking15 2y ago
    > your supposition is so fraught that it’s not worth a cogent response > a flag that white progressives like to wave to tokenize Nothing you said makes sense. Celebrating black abortion as a victory ignores that an entire generation of black babies were annihilated in the name of "progress".
dzhiurgis 2y ago
No amount of netflix or bars can replace single hug from my 4yo
- soganess 2y ago
  I would like to have kids, so I understand your intention here... But no amount of hugs from your 4yo would replace the 3-week 3000/4000-mile 38-state(USA) road trip my close friends and I took traveling the state and national parks. We hiked, cave dove (dived??), camped, and lived out a rented mini-van. Not to mention all the little road trip memories and folks we met along the way. Things are not always comparable, pretending they are really misses the mark. Someone might meet the love of their life at a bar. Someone might see a documentary about their homeland that inspires them to find their roots. We have no idea what the lasting effects of a single event might be.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    I've moved to Europe in 2022 and back to NZ in 2023. During that time we visited Fiji, Singapore, Frankfurt, Tenerife, Barcelona, Japan, New Caledonia and lived on a boat for a total of ~month. All with 1 and 3 yo and that time.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  Once you have a 4yo quite a lot of netflix replaces your bars

Fire-Dragon-DoL 2y ago

I'm 35 with two children and completely agree with you. The sad state of things is that is not assumed anymore you will have children (the opposite). For example, there used to be many family movies (movies that both adults and children could enjoy), but now I can't find many. There are kids movies or adults movies, but family movies are more rare. None of my friends in 2 countries had children (I'm an immigrant). That's shocking, all families with children I had to meet after I had them. Anyway lucky services for families are strong and we can enjoy the time together, but my prospective growing up was to share this also with my friends, so the realization it wouldn't be the case was sad. All of them are losing so much.

happytoexplain 2y ago

This is worded in a way that is a little confusing to me. "Not planning" to have children because "having a child was just assumed", and just letting it happen whenever it happens, is still an explicit plan to have children, regardless of whether it falls under the umbrella of "family planning" as a formal term. Now, people are explicitly deciding not to have children. This would be true regardless of how actively or inactively people used to approach child-having.

AndrewKemendo 2y ago
Yes well that’s the point Until the 1970s there was no reliable way to decide to not have children while still being sexually active. That’s a well researched and documented change in biology that continues to be ignored for how massively impactful it has been on society. We take it for granted that you can have regular sex and not have a kid as a result. That’s extraordinarily new and powerful in human history. Said another way: The base rate of likelihood of having a child as a result of having sex has dropped to ~1% given the prevalence of oral contraception (99% with perfect use + Plan-B) and abortion (for gaps in perfect contraceptive use) from ~20% which was the failure rate of the most successful method of interruption + synchronization with menstrual cycle, prior to oc. A 20x drop in desired children is non-trivial and reflects a 20x base rate change.

lurking15 2y ago

> in that we’re now intentional and forceful about consentful sex, accessible birth control, accessible abortion etc I guess this is Progressive in the 1920s sense (as much as the faux-sophisticates think they've outgrown the past, they've really just doubled-down), since the black population would have been much larger now otherwise

AndrewKemendo 2y ago
This is as close to a dog whistle as I think is probably still socially allowable. However your supposition is so fraught that it’s not worth a cogent response other than highlighting that the concept that abortion is “Black Genocide” has been long recognized by the black community as being a flag that white progressives like to wave to tokenize and use black women as pawns for their puritanical ideas.
- lurking15 2y ago
  > your supposition is so fraught that it’s not worth a cogent response > a flag that white progressives like to wave to tokenize Nothing you said makes sense. Celebrating black abortion as a victory ignores that an entire generation of black babies were annihilated in the name of "progress".

dzhiurgis 2y ago

No amount of netflix or bars can replace single hug from my 4yo

soganess 2y ago
I would like to have kids, so I understand your intention here... But no amount of hugs from your 4yo would replace the 3-week 3000/4000-mile 38-state(USA) road trip my close friends and I took traveling the state and national parks. We hiked, cave dove (dived??), camped, and lived out a rented mini-van. Not to mention all the little road trip memories and folks we met along the way. Things are not always comparable, pretending they are really misses the mark. Someone might meet the love of their life at a bar. Someone might see a documentary about their homeland that inspires them to find their roots. We have no idea what the lasting effects of a single event might be.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  I've moved to Europe in 2022 and back to NZ in 2023. During that time we visited Fiji, Singapore, Frankfurt, Tenerife, Barcelona, Japan, New Caledonia and lived on a boat for a total of ~month. All with 1 and 3 yo and that time.
jemmyw 2y ago
Once you have a 4yo quite a lot of netflix replaces your bars