4 ms·

I dislike the term because it is, in fact, not that common. I am diagnosed ADHD but I don't have any symptom of autism (sensory overload, difficulty reading so

by sph 2y ago

I dislike the term because it is, in fact, not that common. I am diagnosed ADHD but I don't have any symptom of autism (sensory overload, difficulty reading social cues, gender dysphoria, repetitive behaviour etc.) and I wish they were studied separately as the physiology, pharmacology and the effect on quality of life is completely different between ADHD and autism. Without mentioning the effect on focus and executive function, which is basically all ADHD is, and presents the complete opposite in autism: repetitive behaviour and long-lasting focus in niche interests vs squirrel brain with flashes of hyperfocus. If they seem comorbid on social media profiles, it might be because everybody and their dog seems to have ADHD today, so is pretty much meaningless. You could attach it to any personality disorder you wish.

nobodywasishere 2y ago
Your understanding of ADHD is very limited and doesn't reflect the true scope of what ADHD entails. Also, a lot more people being diagnosed with ADHD (who were previously masking and "blending in" while secretly suffering) doesn't make the word meaningless.
- hirvi74 2y ago
  > (who were previously masking and "blending in" while secretly suffering) Do you mind helping me understand this more? How can one mask ADHD symptoms? I have ADHD, and I cannot conceptualize what masking would even look like. Or perhaps, in better terms, what is the difference between masking ADHD and adhering to social expectations and norms? What would not masking the condition look like? Is masking a bad? If one can mask their condition then is their condition generally less severe than those that cannot mask their condition? I am just trying to understand because I feel like masking is the new pop-psychology term that keeps popping up, and I find it hard to discern what the nuance surrounding it.
  - sph 2y ago
    Maybe they meant self-medicating? I used to be a heavy smoker, quit 4 years ago, and in hindsight quitting made me aware I had debilitating ADHD and I couldn't function. I recently made the connection between quitting nicotine and my life spiraling down, that I reintroduced nicotine patches and I have found that they are better, cheaper and longer lasting than any amphetamine I was prescribed.
    - arresin 2y ago
      I can relate to this fully. I used to be a heavy smoker also (and also ADHD). I think overall the health effects are less negative with low dose amphetamine (VERY low dose vs what abuse looks like).
      - AbstractH24 2y ago
        Curious how you define low dose
      - sph 2y ago
        > I think overall the health effects are less negative Possible but in my case amphetamines last 4 hours (lisdex lasts 6), and make me very hungry, horny and exhausted by 7pm. Also, they feel like I am the cart and the meds are the horse, i.e. they pull me around to do stuff even when I just want to relax a little. Nicotine on the other hand gives me motivation, focus is still a bit iffy and not as pointed as with AMPH, but OTC patches last 24 hours, are cheap and don't make me tired at all (I remove the patch 3 hours before bed). Also I can drink coffee again without feeling like my heart's exploding, which is a major plus. It's been 2 weeks of this nicotine experiment, and I feel more like myself than a very driven machine attached to an 8 hour battery. I'm using 7.5mg patches (15mg nicorette cut in half) My med dosage was relatively low btw, I'm pretty sensitive to amphetamines. Nicotine by itself seems to be as dangerous as caffeine. In any case, there is a lot of research correlating between nicotine inhalation (even from second hand smoke) while in utero or in youth and ADHD. My pet, non-scientific theory is that for some, their ADHD is simply "chronic nicotine withdrawal". The fact that there are a lot more diagnoses these days might be because smoking is not in vogue any more, everybody wants to quit (rightly so), but our smoking parents permanently ruined our growing brain in childhood, as so did the past 5 generations.
  - pas 2y ago
    for example picking jobs (and choosing partners) that give/impose structure is a form of masking. overcompensating is another. adhering to norms, okay but to which ones? how do you know when the norms are shifting? are you pushing for change, rocking the boat with a the trailblazers or are you cooling heads and pitching for the status quo? and of course this is where the neurodiversity dilemma is very visible, because is "pushing for change" in your personality or it's the "neuropathology"? sure, a bit of both, but if someone is bad at managing changes, seeing transformative projects to completion, then ... maybe they would fare much better if they could stay put on their butts instead of joining the youngsters (to escape the otherwise incomprehensibly harsh boredom). > What would not masking the condition look like? ideally, accepting that someone is simply a 1000-fold more sensitive to "boredom", getting accommodations for it, while still doing the same "boring old job" as others (instead of running away with the proverbial circus) > If one can mask their condition then is their condition generally less severe than those that cannot mask their condition? well. in some sense yes, of course. but maybe because they are better at keeping their mouth shut and pushing through adversity, they are in a more precarious situation in life, they simply don't have the luxury to not be okay. still they might be suffering a lot more than others. (and as a result might have higher allostatic load, worse health outcomes, etc. -- https://karger.com/pps/article/90/1/11/294736/Allostatic-Load-and-Its-Impact-on-Health-A https://karger.com/pps/article/90/1/11/294736/Allostatic-Loa... ) for example is being rich and having the possibility to not work for months (or job hop for many years), go to fancy therapy centers and evaluations, better than being forced to work low-paying service jobs for decades? is masking good? since it's a very broad concept (maybe if we want to somehow encapsulate it we might call it a collection of tools) the various forms have different good and bad consequences. being kept accountable usually helps for some ADHD people. but if one's ADHD mostly manifests as various nasty emotional regulation problems, then it just condemns one to a life of depression and anxiety (impostor syndrome, low self-esteem, etc.) and here masking is just "suppressing problems" which is hopefully obviously bad. also simply having some kind of diagnosis, knowing one's limits, weaknesses and occasional strengths helps dealing with life. ... also I recommend watching Russell Barkley's videos on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHvFzO6jC4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHvFzO6jC4 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g6caraZCtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g6caraZCtw
ozzcer 2y ago
I mean neither are particularly well defined or well understood diagnosises. Just identify with whatever helps you get through the day we're all in this together. I've been diagnosed with quite severe ADHD but the psychologist admitted I was displaying several autism symptoms as well so really it could be either but the fastest route to treatment here in the UK is ADHD (still shockingly slow). Seeing as the symptoms and treatments overlap and our medical systems are generally poorly equipped to deal with either I think fussing the line is a bit of a waste of time. Also not that many people are diagnosed or identify as ADHD, most people are neurotypical hence the typical bit, if you feel like ADHD is everywhere you need to get out of whatever echo chamber has been designed to make you angry about it. More love.
- pas 2y ago
  well, yes, but no. there's a huge overlap, and AuDHD seems more than just the sum of its parts: "Additional analyses revealed that individuals diagnosed with both ASD and ADHD are double-loaded with genetic predisposition for both disorders and show distinctive patterns of genetic association with other traits when compared to the ASD-only and ADHD-only subgroups." "We identified seven loci shared by the disorders and five loci differentiating them. All five differentiating loci showed opposite allelic directions in the two disorders and significant associations with other traits, e.g., educational attainment, neuroticism and regional brain volume." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10848300/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10848300/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7077032/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7077032/

by sph 2y ago

nobodywasishere 2y ago

Your understanding of ADHD is very limited and doesn't reflect the true scope of what ADHD entails. Also, a lot more people being diagnosed with ADHD (who were previously masking and "blending in" while secretly suffering) doesn't make the word meaningless.

hirvi74 2y ago
> (who were previously masking and "blending in" while secretly suffering) Do you mind helping me understand this more? How can one mask ADHD symptoms? I have ADHD, and I cannot conceptualize what masking would even look like. Or perhaps, in better terms, what is the difference between masking ADHD and adhering to social expectations and norms? What would not masking the condition look like? Is masking a bad? If one can mask their condition then is their condition generally less severe than those that cannot mask their condition? I am just trying to understand because I feel like masking is the new pop-psychology term that keeps popping up, and I find it hard to discern what the nuance surrounding it.
- sph 2y ago
  Maybe they meant self-medicating? I used to be a heavy smoker, quit 4 years ago, and in hindsight quitting made me aware I had debilitating ADHD and I couldn't function. I recently made the connection between quitting nicotine and my life spiraling down, that I reintroduced nicotine patches and I have found that they are better, cheaper and longer lasting than any amphetamine I was prescribed.
  - arresin 2y ago
    I can relate to this fully. I used to be a heavy smoker also (and also ADHD). I think overall the health effects are less negative with low dose amphetamine (VERY low dose vs what abuse looks like).
    - AbstractH24 2y ago
      Curious how you define low dose
    - sph 2y ago
      > I think overall the health effects are less negative Possible but in my case amphetamines last 4 hours (lisdex lasts 6), and make me very hungry, horny and exhausted by 7pm. Also, they feel like I am the cart and the meds are the horse, i.e. they pull me around to do stuff even when I just want to relax a little. Nicotine on the other hand gives me motivation, focus is still a bit iffy and not as pointed as with AMPH, but OTC patches last 24 hours, are cheap and don't make me tired at all (I remove the patch 3 hours before bed). Also I can drink coffee again without feeling like my heart's exploding, which is a major plus. It's been 2 weeks of this nicotine experiment, and I feel more like myself than a very driven machine attached to an 8 hour battery. I'm using 7.5mg patches (15mg nicorette cut in half) My med dosage was relatively low btw, I'm pretty sensitive to amphetamines. Nicotine by itself seems to be as dangerous as caffeine. In any case, there is a lot of research correlating between nicotine inhalation (even from second hand smoke) while in utero or in youth and ADHD. My pet, non-scientific theory is that for some, their ADHD is simply "chronic nicotine withdrawal". The fact that there are a lot more diagnoses these days might be because smoking is not in vogue any more, everybody wants to quit (rightly so), but our smoking parents permanently ruined our growing brain in childhood, as so did the past 5 generations.
- pas 2y ago
  for example picking jobs (and choosing partners) that give/impose structure is a form of masking. overcompensating is another. adhering to norms, okay but to which ones? how do you know when the norms are shifting? are you pushing for change, rocking the boat with a the trailblazers or are you cooling heads and pitching for the status quo? and of course this is where the neurodiversity dilemma is very visible, because is "pushing for change" in your personality or it's the "neuropathology"? sure, a bit of both, but if someone is bad at managing changes, seeing transformative projects to completion, then ... maybe they would fare much better if they could stay put on their butts instead of joining the youngsters (to escape the otherwise incomprehensibly harsh boredom). > What would not masking the condition look like? ideally, accepting that someone is simply a 1000-fold more sensitive to "boredom", getting accommodations for it, while still doing the same "boring old job" as others (instead of running away with the proverbial circus) > If one can mask their condition then is their condition generally less severe than those that cannot mask their condition? well. in some sense yes, of course. but maybe because they are better at keeping their mouth shut and pushing through adversity, they are in a more precarious situation in life, they simply don't have the luxury to not be okay. still they might be suffering a lot more than others. (and as a result might have higher allostatic load, worse health outcomes, etc. -- https://karger.com/pps/article/90/1/11/294736/Allostatic-Load-and-Its-Impact-on-Health-A https://karger.com/pps/article/90/1/11/294736/Allostatic-Loa... ) for example is being rich and having the possibility to not work for months (or job hop for many years), go to fancy therapy centers and evaluations, better than being forced to work low-paying service jobs for decades? is masking good? since it's a very broad concept (maybe if we want to somehow encapsulate it we might call it a collection of tools) the various forms have different good and bad consequences. being kept accountable usually helps for some ADHD people. but if one's ADHD mostly manifests as various nasty emotional regulation problems, then it just condemns one to a life of depression and anxiety (impostor syndrome, low self-esteem, etc.) and here masking is just "suppressing problems" which is hopefully obviously bad. also simply having some kind of diagnosis, knowing one's limits, weaknesses and occasional strengths helps dealing with life. ... also I recommend watching Russell Barkley's videos on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHvFzO6jC4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJHvFzO6jC4 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g6caraZCtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5g6caraZCtw

ozzcer 2y ago

I mean neither are particularly well defined or well understood diagnosises. Just identify with whatever helps you get through the day we're all in this together. I've been diagnosed with quite severe ADHD but the psychologist admitted I was displaying several autism symptoms as well so really it could be either but the fastest route to treatment here in the UK is ADHD (still shockingly slow). Seeing as the symptoms and treatments overlap and our medical systems are generally poorly equipped to deal with either I think fussing the line is a bit of a waste of time. Also not that many people are diagnosed or identify as ADHD, most people are neurotypical hence the typical bit, if you feel like ADHD is everywhere you need to get out of whatever echo chamber has been designed to make you angry about it. More love.

pas 2y ago
well, yes, but no. there's a huge overlap, and AuDHD seems more than just the sum of its parts: "Additional analyses revealed that individuals diagnosed with both ASD and ADHD are double-loaded with genetic predisposition for both disorders and show distinctive patterns of genetic association with other traits when compared to the ASD-only and ADHD-only subgroups." "We identified seven loci shared by the disorders and five loci differentiating them. All five differentiating loci showed opposite allelic directions in the two disorders and significant associations with other traits, e.g., educational attainment, neuroticism and regional brain volume." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10848300/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10848300/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7077032/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7077032/