4 ms·

Teaching is very difficult to do well, and if teaching isn't rewarded financially, well... would you want a 'passionate' doctor who was paid $50,000 a year and

Teaching is very difficult to do well, and if teaching isn't rewarded financially, well... would you want a 'passionate' doctor who was paid $50,000 a year and lived in a rented one-bedroom in the bad part of town treating you for cancer?

yMEyUyNE1 2y ago
> would you want a 'passionate' doctor As long as the doctor is proficient/expert/licenced, why would the rest matter?
- photochemsyn 2y ago
  As long as the teacher is proficient/expert/licensed, why would the rest matter? Just give them your children and hope for the best.
  - tirant 2y ago
    There's nothing right or wrong where the teacher or a doctor lives. That's their own decision. What matters is their performance at work and that there are not only intrinsic motivation but also an extrinsic motivation with monetary incentives to perform well at work. And that can only be ensured with a free market that allows schools to pay better for the best teachers and also parents to pay more for the best schools.
throwaway2037 2y ago
Why do people thinking teaching is any harder than any other job that requires a university education? You get trained; you get mentored; you get regular professional improvement. And, the bit about low wages always makes me chuckle. Everyone overlooks the lifetime earnings of a public school teacher: It is usually very good (much better than most boring office jobs), when you include the value of all benefits, including summer holiday and retire/pension.
- Edman274 2y ago
  If the benefits and wages were so much better than "boring office jobs" then why would there be a teacher shortage in the absence of onerous requirements for entry? Why is there a teacher shortage if the pay and benefits are so good?
  - oldpersonintx 2y ago
    [dead]
  - kbolino 2y ago
    Though it isn't true in all states, there are onerous requirements for entry in many places. I grew up and went to college in Maryland, and the education program basically takes over your 4-year degree process. Despite enjoying tutoring and student-teaching, I balked for multiple reasons and left the program to get an ordinary BS degree. Among those reasons were: - the education department at my college wasted my time one too many times; academic infighting made it unnecessarily difficult to get a good advisor and complete the program - the expectation for me to pay full-time tuition in my last year even though it would be spent working (without pay) - seeing my "peers" get Bs and Cs for D- and F-level work in education classes and realizing the standards were way too low - the excessive dictating of which "electives" I had to take outside of education, which frequently put me in the dump classes where the professors had no respect for the students - yes, the less-than-stellar pay and benefits (and MD is one of the best states in the country for teacher pay!) and mandatory union membership (pre-SCOTUS ruling against it) that would follow once I jumped through these hoops - the feeling that, even if I set aside all of these concerns, I would ultimately have no autonomy; I was already seeing that many teachers (including at the college level) just want to coast through their jobs and have not just the curriculum and textbooks but also the assignments, exams, and even daily lectures handed to them by the district, and the same districts not wanting teachers to go off-script for liability reasons too Obviously, some of these elements were particular to my circumstances and experiences and not required by the state, but the program itself was, and even in better circumstances, it still requires a large commitment of time and money.
- markles 2y ago
djtango 2y ago
Thanks, I hadn't crystallised in my head that being a doctor has somehow become a passion industry for many countries (like the UK). It had all the hallmarks of a passion industry but my brain rejected drawing the connection presumably because medicine seem like a typical passion field (like videogames or art are).
Tade0 2y ago
Y-yeah? My cousin is an oncologist and despite the earnings prospects (or actually lack thereof in my region of the world) at the time, she decided on pursuing a career in medicine before she went to high school because she wanted to save lives. I envy her drive and I don't think it's in any way related to how much she makes.

yMEyUyNE1 2y ago

> would you want a 'passionate' doctor As long as the doctor is proficient/expert/licenced, why would the rest matter?

photochemsyn 2y ago
As long as the teacher is proficient/expert/licensed, why would the rest matter? Just give them your children and hope for the best.
- tirant 2y ago
  There's nothing right or wrong where the teacher or a doctor lives. That's their own decision. What matters is their performance at work and that there are not only intrinsic motivation but also an extrinsic motivation with monetary incentives to perform well at work. And that can only be ensured with a free market that allows schools to pay better for the best teachers and also parents to pay more for the best schools.

throwaway2037 2y ago

Why do people thinking teaching is any harder than any other job that requires a university education? You get trained; you get mentored; you get regular professional improvement. And, the bit about low wages always makes me chuckle. Everyone overlooks the lifetime earnings of a public school teacher: It is usually very good (much better than most boring office jobs), when you include the value of all benefits, including summer holiday and retire/pension.

Edman274 2y ago
If the benefits and wages were so much better than "boring office jobs" then why would there be a teacher shortage in the absence of onerous requirements for entry? Why is there a teacher shortage if the pay and benefits are so good?
- oldpersonintx 2y ago
  [dead]
- kbolino 2y ago
  Though it isn't true in all states, there are onerous requirements for entry in many places. I grew up and went to college in Maryland, and the education program basically takes over your 4-year degree process. Despite enjoying tutoring and student-teaching, I balked for multiple reasons and left the program to get an ordinary BS degree. Among those reasons were: - the education department at my college wasted my time one too many times; academic infighting made it unnecessarily difficult to get a good advisor and complete the program - the expectation for me to pay full-time tuition in my last year even though it would be spent working (without pay) - seeing my "peers" get Bs and Cs for D- and F-level work in education classes and realizing the standards were way too low - the excessive dictating of which "electives" I had to take outside of education, which frequently put me in the dump classes where the professors had no respect for the students - yes, the less-than-stellar pay and benefits (and MD is one of the best states in the country for teacher pay!) and mandatory union membership (pre-SCOTUS ruling against it) that would follow once I jumped through these hoops - the feeling that, even if I set aside all of these concerns, I would ultimately have no autonomy; I was already seeing that many teachers (including at the college level) just want to coast through their jobs and have not just the curriculum and textbooks but also the assignments, exams, and even daily lectures handed to them by the district, and the same districts not wanting teachers to go off-script for liability reasons too Obviously, some of these elements were particular to my circumstances and experiences and not required by the state, but the program itself was, and even in better circumstances, it still requires a large commitment of time and money.
markles 2y ago

djtango 2y ago

Thanks, I hadn't crystallised in my head that being a doctor has somehow become a passion industry for many countries (like the UK). It had all the hallmarks of a passion industry but my brain rejected drawing the connection presumably because medicine seem like a typical passion field (like videogames or art are).

Tade0 2y ago

Y-yeah? My cousin is an oncologist and despite the earnings prospects (or actually lack thereof in my region of the world) at the time, she decided on pursuing a career in medicine before she went to high school because she wanted to save lives. I envy her drive and I don't think it's in any way related to how much she makes.