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While I know many people want others to be banned for this type of material and these comments removed, as someone who grew up as a 15 year old during peak 4cha

While I know many people want others to be banned for this type of material and these comments removed, as someone who grew up as a 15 year old during peak 4chan years I have a different perspective that might be enlightening to anyone older. There are games, stories, books and movies filled with murder, rape, nazis, evil, gore, antiheroes etc. I was never once motivated to replicate that behaviour. It was always just something crazy/bad people did. All my friends also knew the world is full of crazy people who believe crazy things. Every guy in my school had seen 4chan atleast if not pol. At the end of the day what prevents people from turning evil is being raised well. You could ban all depictions of rape/murder in the world but we would still have rapists, racists, theives, and murderers. I am a free speech absolutist. I do not believe the cost of hiding evil in the way you advocate would meaningfully influence how many evil people are created. I do believe letting the government enforce or police it in any way might seem okay in the short term but overall harm us in the long term.

seanvelasco 2y ago
while i agree with you, this is different. imagine this scenario: you're just a simple teen being born in a certain country, not having to do with any kind of conflict or politics, and you're bombarded with hate comments like "jump" and "keys", which are euphemisms for self-harm, and even "baby killer" for simply belonging to a certain population or ethnicity. i have experienced this firsthand - i received these exact replies on a comment i posted on a cute cat video. no one, especially not an innocent person, should be subjected to such treatment.
- wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
  I do not think it is different. I actually see that as an opportunity to learn an important lesson in human behaviour. If I was the parent of the teen, I would tell them its just stupid shit people say online, and worse some people are like that in real life too. If you were face to face in just about any setting most of them probably would not think or dare say these things. Its just criminal jeering. Dont give it any consideration." And that would probably be the end of it. Maybe they are still upset for a bit, but kids cry and dont want to go on their first day of school, but they must go to school. You either learn now when you are young or learn later when you are an adult and It will be much harder. If your parents/friends dont somehow guide you through that you are in for a difficult life regardless of whether some random person sends mean unicode at you. You cant change the world. Go look at the grafiti people used to write in Pompeii 2000 years ago. https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-p... This type of behaviour isnt going anywhere. Dont open your feelings to it.
  - seanvelasco 2y ago
    i see your point, but we should draw a line between malevolence that we teach our children so they're well-informed and malevolence that borders on hate crimes. such behavior will never go away, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take actions against them. when TikTok says the comment that told them to end their life has "no violation," it's deeply hurtful and traumatic, and there's no life lesson to be learned here. we have laws and guidelines for a reason. we enforce them so that we have a functioning society.
    - wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
      There are many lessons to learn here. Dont be thin skinned online. Evil is real, etc. Dwtermine your value by your own self estimation, not an anonymous vote. (extremely important lesson in a social media world) Many many lessons. We have laws, but that mere fact is not an excuse to make any and every law so it is not a very strong point. Besides, free speech is law, and it is constantly enforced. It is law. And it was a law very intentionally created so that we can have a functioning society, explicitly made from the perspective of someone who was subjected to restrected speech from another government. Free speech is a rare liberty that only the most prosperous nations enjoy, and had to be payed for with millions of bodies and blood. I highly recommend talking to an older person who fled the soviet union. Side point, I do not believe in hate crime as distinguished from crime. Crime is crime. If I murder someone is it twice as immoral if they are black? There should be no distinction. The mere existence of a legal distinction violates my good sense.
      - seanvelasco 2y ago
        let's just agree to disagree. my point is, hate speech such as pushing others to commit suicide or promoting their genocide, should definitely removed in any platform. saying "don't be thin-skinned" to a person who just received death threats is pathological. hate speech is definitely not free speech. and addressing hate speech does not limit free speech. on your advice on talking to an older person, i do have grandparents who were silenced by an oppressive regime. my advice to you is, talk to the people who were actually receiving these hateful comments, perhaps you'd be enlightened.
- meiraleal 2y ago
  What's your intention adding a flag to a field called "NAME"?
hhjinks 2y ago
There's a qualitative difference between games, stories, books and movies and a platform that purports to present real, organic people and opinions to you. It fundamentally changes the way you engage with the content.
- wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
  You made an obvious counterargument to a distinction I already covered. See mentions of 4chan, etc.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
energy123 2y ago
Why did antisemitic attitudes almost double in the US in 2021-2022 according to surveys of beliefs? Did parenting get worse? I think your understanding of how people form beliefs is not accurate. Both good and bad ideas are contagious. Humans are vulnerable to social proof. Most humans aren't that smart. Most humans aren't impervious to the madness of crowds. They will adopt the religion of their parents. They will adopt the bigotry of their peers, typically no more and no less. A person from 100 years ago is more racist than a person today because they were surrounded by different norms. People aren't rational actors, they absorb what they're given.
- wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
  There is a lot to disagree with here, but... you should have more faith in your fellow man or you might as well give up. Are we all just mindless automaton to be programmed by a sanctioned agenda? Atleast if we let the calculation be decentralized we know nature will guide us to nash equilibrium.
  - energy123 2y ago
    I don't want to die in another racism fueled genocide. Whether or not that genocide will be a natural Nash equilibrium is of no interest to me. I have no faith in my fellow man after studying history. I have faith only in good systems that attenuate humanity's worst aspects and allow humans to flourish despite our flaws.
    - wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
      Free speech is a good system that allows humans to flourish, and is basically only around in the best places with modern prosperity. It is the fascist nations that enact speech restrictions. Go read 1984. Go learn about how wrongthink influences daily life in soviet era. The right that you are even allowed to discuss this topic has been paid for in blood over centuries. Be greatful. Dont undo it.
      - 2y ago

seanvelasco 2y ago

while i agree with you, this is different. imagine this scenario: you're just a simple teen being born in a certain country, not having to do with any kind of conflict or politics, and you're bombarded with hate comments like "jump" and "keys", which are euphemisms for self-harm, and even "baby killer" for simply belonging to a certain population or ethnicity. i have experienced this firsthand - i received these exact replies on a comment i posted on a cute cat video. no one, especially not an innocent person, should be subjected to such treatment.

wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
I do not think it is different. I actually see that as an opportunity to learn an important lesson in human behaviour. If I was the parent of the teen, I would tell them its just stupid shit people say online, and worse some people are like that in real life too. If you were face to face in just about any setting most of them probably would not think or dare say these things. Its just criminal jeering. Dont give it any consideration." And that would probably be the end of it. Maybe they are still upset for a bit, but kids cry and dont want to go on their first day of school, but they must go to school. You either learn now when you are young or learn later when you are an adult and It will be much harder. If your parents/friends dont somehow guide you through that you are in for a difficult life regardless of whether some random person sends mean unicode at you. You cant change the world. Go look at the grafiti people used to write in Pompeii 2000 years ago. https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-pompeii-and-herculaneu https://kashgar.com.au/blogs/history/the-bawdy-graffiti-of-p... This type of behaviour isnt going anywhere. Dont open your feelings to it.
- seanvelasco 2y ago
  i see your point, but we should draw a line between malevolence that we teach our children so they're well-informed and malevolence that borders on hate crimes. such behavior will never go away, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take actions against them. when TikTok says the comment that told them to end their life has "no violation," it's deeply hurtful and traumatic, and there's no life lesson to be learned here. we have laws and guidelines for a reason. we enforce them so that we have a functioning society.
  - wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
    There are many lessons to learn here. Dont be thin skinned online. Evil is real, etc. Dwtermine your value by your own self estimation, not an anonymous vote. (extremely important lesson in a social media world) Many many lessons. We have laws, but that mere fact is not an excuse to make any and every law so it is not a very strong point. Besides, free speech is law, and it is constantly enforced. It is law. And it was a law very intentionally created so that we can have a functioning society, explicitly made from the perspective of someone who was subjected to restrected speech from another government. Free speech is a rare liberty that only the most prosperous nations enjoy, and had to be payed for with millions of bodies and blood. I highly recommend talking to an older person who fled the soviet union. Side point, I do not believe in hate crime as distinguished from crime. Crime is crime. If I murder someone is it twice as immoral if they are black? There should be no distinction. The mere existence of a legal distinction violates my good sense.
    - seanvelasco 2y ago
      let's just agree to disagree. my point is, hate speech such as pushing others to commit suicide or promoting their genocide, should definitely removed in any platform. saying "don't be thin-skinned" to a person who just received death threats is pathological. hate speech is definitely not free speech. and addressing hate speech does not limit free speech. on your advice on talking to an older person, i do have grandparents who were silenced by an oppressive regime. my advice to you is, talk to the people who were actually receiving these hateful comments, perhaps you'd be enlightened.
meiraleal 2y ago
What's your intention adding a flag to a field called "NAME"?

hhjinks 2y ago

There's a qualitative difference between games, stories, books and movies and a platform that purports to present real, organic people and opinions to you. It fundamentally changes the way you engage with the content.

wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
You made an obvious counterargument to a distinction I already covered. See mentions of 4chan, etc.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

energy123 2y ago

Why did antisemitic attitudes almost double in the US in 2021-2022 according to surveys of beliefs? Did parenting get worse? I think your understanding of how people form beliefs is not accurate. Both good and bad ideas are contagious. Humans are vulnerable to social proof. Most humans aren't that smart. Most humans aren't impervious to the madness of crowds. They will adopt the religion of their parents. They will adopt the bigotry of their peers, typically no more and no less. A person from 100 years ago is more racist than a person today because they were surrounded by different norms. People aren't rational actors, they absorb what they're given.

wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
There is a lot to disagree with here, but... you should have more faith in your fellow man or you might as well give up. Are we all just mindless automaton to be programmed by a sanctioned agenda? Atleast if we let the calculation be decentralized we know nature will guide us to nash equilibrium.
- energy123 2y ago
  I don't want to die in another racism fueled genocide. Whether or not that genocide will be a natural Nash equilibrium is of no interest to me. I have no faith in my fellow man after studying history. I have faith only in good systems that attenuate humanity's worst aspects and allow humans to flourish despite our flaws.
  - wegfawefgawefg 2y ago
    Free speech is a good system that allows humans to flourish, and is basically only around in the best places with modern prosperity. It is the fascist nations that enact speech restrictions. Go read 1984. Go learn about how wrongthink influences daily life in soviet era. The right that you are even allowed to discuss this topic has been paid for in blood over centuries. Be greatful. Dont undo it.
    - 2y ago